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14 Inch All Terrain Tyres/Sizes

Discussion in 'T3 & T4 Tech Help Clinic' started by beastieboy, Apr 30, 2017.

  1. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    When looking at increasing tyre size on a bay ( putting legalities aside) a question has been how does it affect cooling and driveability at highway speeds, ie maintaining speed on light hills/ headwinds?
    Guess Ian's post answers that.

    Especially seeing as it was an aircooled 2l T3 loaded up and towing substantial trailer.

    No issues in above conditions Ian?
     
    Syncro27 likes this.
  2. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    2016 updated version

    https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C00487

    I interpret
    4.3.2 .MB- microbus. Foward control passenger veh.
    4.3.3. .MC- syncro. 4wd passenger or goods.
    4.5.2. .NA- kombi or any variant with 5 or less seats. Light goods vehicle.

    Edit
    I was chasing a note where NA was included in 50,mm but misread.
    It was in reference to track.

    Looks like BIG tyres will still be a mod plate item for NA and MB :(
    ( officially anyway)

    Edit
    BUT.....
    http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/S.../NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf?la=en
    A kombi ( NA) does not get excluded as per passenger vehicle.
    I consider it fits second point being a 2wd EQUIVALENT of an MC ( NOT DERIVITIVE) and in N category.?

    4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter
    The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not
    be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle
    manufacturer for that model.
    The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
     4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR
    category). All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be
    certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not
    included in this category;
     4WD goods vehicles and their 2WD equivalents if the chassis and running gear are
    essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
     any medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category).
    Must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the
    vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
    Note: Increases in tyre diameter are subject to compliance with all other requirements
    specified under this clause (Clause 4.2 Non-Standard Tyres and Rims) and may
    therefore be limited by other factors such as insufficient clearance.
    Speedometer accuracy must be maintained for the selected tyre and rim combination to within
    the degree of accuracy specified in ADR 18 where applicable. It is suggested that the degree of
    accuracy is in accordance with the most recent version of ADR18.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
    Syncro27 likes this.
  3. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,294
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I wouldn't lift a T3 more than around 25mm anyway. Imagine the CV angles and axle length?
     
    oldman likes this.
  4. beastieboy

    beastieboy Active Member

    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Adelaide
    This is a great argument.
    In respect to South Australia, our laws are a bit more relaxed in comparison. Still interesting. Would never have thought the conversation would have grown to this. To be honest a cop here probably wouldn't have a clue about kombis when it comes to tyres, there are probably bigger fish to fry E.G Japanese turbo coupes, lowered with bigger rims e.c.t. Easier pickings than an old slow van that still looks stock. But you never know I guess. 15 is ok, it's easier to get tyres cheaper and seems to give you more choices as I said before. So that's probably what I'll do, but please continue the discussion, it's interesting.
     
  5. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Any suggestions what largest OD would suit something stock or particularly air cooled.

    What tread patterns are popular with the syncro crowd for general AT and MT ?
     
  6. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,294
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    215/75x15 loaded radius 342mm

    BFG A/T
     
    cbus likes this.
  7. beastieboy

    beastieboy Active Member

    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Aye....

    Tell me this...

    I presume tyre wear/size e.c.t get checked for your R.W.C in your state?

    I'm learning here as I know nothing about the RWC from living in South Australia.

    We don't have any yearly check or have to provide any form of mechanical documents on a yearly basis or anything.

    If you buy a car you, just check it's not stolen E.C.T Correct owner owns it, (blah blah general registration office government paperwork boring stuff).

    If it's not defected in any way you can drive it pretty much.

    A defect can occur at any traffic stop or random pull over, and can be issued on the spot by a policeman.

    Over here they will usually casually have a look at your tyres (while pulling you over for a broken brake light) on the spot whenever for whatever if they want.

    Never had a sticker myself, on any car of mine but hear it's a pretty straight forward if its tyres. But until I do this is rough guess at best and probably wrong.

    (Cars are kind of policed in this type of format/manner, at all times, rather than us having to have a yearly RWC)

    From what I've been told the story sorta goes...

    Cop could have easy said tyres are below 1/4 tread, hitting the max wear, I'll defect your car, and I'd get the windscreen sticker with conditions applying.

    I'd be able to drive the car in a limited fashion, allowed to drive to only 3 places pretty much,(Home, the police station, or tyre repair place) attempt repair the tyre, get them changed to meet the tyre tread defect demands (Even 2nd hand tyres with half tread would do it probably at the least).

    Pay money to get the sticker removed and approved at a police station.

    Then you are on your way again.

    Guess they would look at the general condition of the car also while your there, so you usually don't want to arrive with a missing drivers side and windscreen rear view mirror.
    Make sure all the simple things are O.K, lights work, seat belt retracts properly in place, and doesn't hang in the door seal getting slammed on ever time you shut the door.

    Small body panel dents are ok and don't usually get picked on if it's not major, but if your bumpers half hanging off unsecured, it's an obvious road hazard.

    I think, (guessing from rumours), long as you meet the demands of the issued defect you are good to go. Unsure though if the plod are allowed to not lift the defect, in relation to another issue if it's minor, but not amazed if they can.

    E.G. You fix your tyres but the cop comments on the seat belts not retracting properly dangling outside, trapped in the door while it's shut.

    From what I hear the small problems usually get dealt with by police at police stations.

    Rims being too big (size written on tyres kinda gives you away hey!?) Stuff like that.

    Bigger problems like maybe being caught changing seat capacity and adding/removing seatbelts, big mods like aftermarket turbo, superchargers e.c.t you may have to go to usually "Regency Park" (if you are in the adelaide metro area) where they can pick at anything over and under pit and hoist, by a team in a workshop.

    Example I experienced was a guy I know had to go there after buying a brand new HSV Clubsport straight from the Holden dealership. He was disabled and had to have a hand controller fitted and approved (basically a motorbike throttle to drive it).
    Regency O.K'ed the hand controller but held the car up for a kind of paint splatter across the engine.
    For a second there, they had a brand new HSV Clubsport in their clutches and they were not going to let it go.
    After a phone call and some yapping it turned out to be HSV DNA markings. Parts are marked with a DNA paint so they could trace and trace stolen bits back to where they came from. We waited for them to figure out this stuff.

    http://www.datadotdna.com/au/dots-put-thieves-on-the-spot/

    This technology being new the Gov technitions they had not ever delt with it before at the time, and they had to go off and do their homework to make sure it was supposed to be there.

    All approved

    --------------------------

    Anyways... back to my point, so do they check the tyre size to spec for a RWC interstate?

    I doubt a cop would have a problem with syncro 16's if they looked the part.

    Guess that's not technically classed as stock equipment?
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  8. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    That's why one familiarises with legal requirements.

    Qld doesn't have annual checks.
    Vehicles must comply for a safety certificate ( roadworthy) at sale/ purchase.
    It is owners responsibility to ensure veh is roadworthy at all times.
    Police or transport can inspect at any time.

    For a roadworthy the wheels and tyres should be checked for compliance.
    There must be a tyre placard attached to body.
    Under legislation ( as above) certain modifications are allowed without notification( what we have been looking at.)
    Modifications outside those allowed without notification must be approved by an engineer and certified.
    Such certification includes a blue plate and/ or certification which accompanies vehicle for RW inspector to view.

    16 inch rims would comply as long as they are in accordance with all requirements in the documents above.
    Read fully.

    http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/S.../NCOP/20sectionlssuspensionsteering.pdf?la=en
    The standards are now national. Some state differences still exist but are noted on documents.
     
    David H likes this.
  9. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,650
    Location:
    newcastle
    Hi Beastieboy,
    Been following this tyre/rim thing & that's an interesting post about SA RWC's as NSW wouldn't allow that much control to police or that much 'laxity/belief' in owners 'doing the right thing'.:rolleyes:
    Do the cops carry a tape measure?o_O Can they know how to measure accurately roadside:eek:?
    Be interesting to watch that roadside!:p
    If you swap from another state I understand NSW won't pass it just cos SA doesn't check it;) & the hoops begin.
    I'm staying stock.:cool:
    Cheers
     
  10. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,650
    Location:
    newcastle
    Nils Dunny Certificate would comply!
    Cheers
     
  11. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,657
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    ACT also doesn't have any annual checks, but they do have random roadside inspections.

    If they find ANY fault, like a non working light bulb, cracked windscreen, or worn tyre, you are then off for a full roadworthy check, within 14 days.

    Any deemed dangerous fault, or unregistered etc, the vehicle is impounded.
     
  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    You have a camper?
    Be very afraid if you allow registration to lapse .
    :)
     
    David H likes this.
  13. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,650
    Location:
    newcastle
    I do Cbus. It's got a gas bottle inside it surrounded by fibreglass! Notorious for containing explosive blasts:eek:.
    Never lapsed rego as they'll never allow that again!:rolleyes:
    Got the Sopru bit & the gas compliance plate in the fibreglass box (bet they regret that)o_O.
    Cheers
     
  14. beastieboy

    beastieboy Active Member

    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Cbussin it;)
    Never drive without rego mate.
    Just make sure you have tyres Ha!
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2017
  15. beastieboy

    beastieboy Active Member

    Messages:
    673
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Better way to look at Rwc.
    South Australians will buy your crap non conforming cars you've thrashed the engines on to the point your local government don't like you.
    We will drag it's remains over the border to our neck of the woods, and save it because the body is decent and the make and model are popular.
    We pay you peanuts because you did an awesome job destroying it. Fix it up with our spare parts and a few from interstate. Then sell it to someone local for like $3000-4000 profit, coz he's too slack to do what we did. Then the car can relive it's thrashed out life in the hands of a new owner just one more time before retiring with a sticker on it and parted out.

    South Australians benefit from your Rwc and mass populated cities filled with cars;)
     
    wombatventures likes this.
  16. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,650
    Location:
    newcastle
    Gee Beastie,
    Never been to the 'city of churches' but my partner is encouraging me to. Could I just rip over there & get a bargain set of wheels & then get it newly registered in NSW? No probs?
    Nice seats you got tho!
    Cheers
     
  17. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,294
    Location:
    Southern Highlands

    4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter

    The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model.

    The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
     4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category). All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not included in this category;
    4WD goods vehicles and their 2WD equivalents if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
     any medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category).

    Must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle.
     
  18. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,112
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    Yes, thats how I read it. And then it gets a bit more messier courtesy of s4.11:

    4.11 LOWERING OR RAISING VEHICLES

    Section LS Tyres, Rims, Suspension and Steering

    None of the codes in VSB 14 allow for the raising of any vehicle where the wheel track has also been reduced. These vehicles are subject to individual approval on a case-by-case basis.

    Raising the height of the vehicle may be performed without certification providing the overall increase in vehicle height is not more than 50mm. This may be achieved as a single modification such as the installation of a 50mm lift kit, or by a combination of smaller lifts as described below:

    •  the fitting of body blocks or lift kits (50mm maximum if no other modifications resulting in a change of vehicle height are performed);

    •  suspension modification, (50mm maximum if no other modifications resulting in a change of vehicle height are performed);

    •  changes to tyre size (maximum change in tyre size diameter of 50mm); or

    •  a combination of the above that results in a change of vehicle height not exceeding 50mm

    Soooooo, slightly off topic, but does the 50mm max height mean that all those stock campers with chunky fibreglass roofs greater than 50mm high need certification?


     
  19. Kombi Dad

    Kombi Dad Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,457
    Location:
    Bungendore, NSW
    I had no issues with the van at all. It behaved in a very similar manner as the standard fit.

    I did lift it to the height of a Syncro. The only issue with that was the CV boots tended to wear quickly. There was a post on Aussie VeeDubbers that advised a particular Toyota boot would fit and solve he issue.
    https://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=85212
    I never got round to it. I took the '82 off the road for a engine conversion to a water-cooled diesel but my son, Micheal, found me the '89 Syncro which became my camper until the MB Sprinter took over. The conversion is still being considered by Micheal but may or may not happen. He may opt to just rebuild he engine. The engine certainly needs it after the 300,000 odd kms that I put on to it.

    Ian
     
    AC-T3 likes this.
  20. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,521
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Thanks Ian.

    Interesting point Rob. ;)
    I am not aware of a definition that limits the definition of height to increasing road to underbody clearance, or anything similar.
    Wouldn't put it past some bureaucratic arse to try and enforce that .
    Beware roof racks :)

    Edit
    Reread and searched for definitions.

    •  a combination of the above that results in a change of vehicle height not exceeding 50mm.

    Refers and therefore limits to 2 points above. ;)

    Suspension lift defined as increasing distance from wheel centre to body in vertical line.

    Do tend to agree with you and Phil that
    4WD goods vehicles and their 2WD equivalents if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADRcategory); or

    may have some merit.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2017

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