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1600 or 1300 AMR500 supercharging project .

Discussion in 'Performance' started by karstan, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    Well as the missus wont let me get another car as a project i convinced her to let me have an engine as a project ... little does she knowit will most likely cost the same.

    The project is too place a Amr500 suercharger too a 1600 engine i have sitting here... get the kit working then rebuild the engine itself.

    So far iv spent hours upon hours researching for other that have done it ... there is little info/pics ...From the info iv read the Hp gain is worth it.. Most people place the SC on its side to allow for a side draft Dellorto and an easier/cheaper application. im goin to attemp to sit it upright with a side draft dellorto dhla 40.



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  2. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
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    Iv been coming up with a template for a braket and this is the design iv settled with..

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    This is where it sits on the engine .. enough clearence all round and correctly allighned.

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    this is the manifold ill use for the SC to Dell.. Keeping it tidy and compact.
     
  3. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    just got myself some dell 40's old style non emision carbs refurbished..

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  4. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    just ordered a pulley for the SC will need to get it keywayed ... went 5mm bigger and will see how the engine takes it ... also getting a scat 4groove serp to suit.

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  5. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    Working out the belt setup is wat iv been researching recently.. trying to find pulleys that will give me around 7-8psi of boost.. Running off the crank pulley ill need a SC pulley around 60mm.

    Mick Pearcy in SA has just finshed a setup for his bus .. and found that using a single v-belt had abit to much slip. I want to go the 4-5 groove belt setup or a bully pulley and hopfully avoid this problem.

    The gen/alt belt was originally designed to slip at too higher revs and a super charger you want no slip at all ... so a single 4 groove system will either not let the gen slip ....or the SC will slip .. replacing the stock fan with a welded one would solve the no slip on the fan .

    Also i was told with a v belt system you dont need to run a releif valve. A But as im not using a v belt ill need to incorperate one into the setup somewhere

    The Double belt i love the look of ...but the SC stood to far forward not allowing me to use the bracket.also abit more fukin around.
     
  6. 77/kombi/surfer

    77/kombi/surfer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,695
    Location:
    Budgewoi N.S.W. AUSTRALIA
    Hey karstan,
    heres some more info on mick trialing a supercharger kit for stock 1600 d/p engines.
    Price will be around $1500, way cheaper that judsons with a new webber.
    heres pics of his pully an super charger trials and kit.
    http://www.vdubber.com/photos/photo?groupid=14&albumid=1109#photoid=2832
    running at 8 boost an recons youll get the same hp as a 2 litre engine.
    sure you already no about this but thought it would be good to bring it up for anyone else interested.
    chuckster
    p.s. im getting one for my 62 splitty..shhhhh!!!!
     

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  7. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,238
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Do superchargers have the same heat issues as a turbo?
    I understand the pricipal of the turbo much more than the supercharger.
    From what I gather they provide more low revs boost then a turbo does correct??
     
  8. gazman

    gazman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,774
    Location:
    Perth WA
    No they don't get nearly as hot because they are not driven by exhaust gases.
    They basically have no lag because they are belt driven and don't have to wait for exhaust pressure to build up, but are also limited by engine rpm and typically don't make as much boost as a turbo.

    @Karstan, have you considered a toyota sc12 or sc14? cheap from a jap wreckers ($300-$350) and the sc14 in particular puts out considerably more power than the amr500. They are similar looking but a little larger, I've fitted the sc14's to a few different things, including an SR20 powered Silvia at 8-9psi which went through a lot of tyres afterwards ;)
     
  9. jb4845

    jb4845 Member

    Messages:
    336
    Location:
    Newcastle
    Hey Karstan - I am watching this with interest - a great project to tackle - good luck.

    JOSH
     
  10. T-34

    T-34 Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    RADalaide
    Hey Karsten, found out where you are hiding. :D

    Superchargers do generate a little heat from the action of compressing the gasses - imagine pumping a bicycle pump with your finger on the end - it gets hot. This is offset a little on a draw through setup as the inlet manifold tends to get very cool so although it creates heat by compressing the gasses it also cools the charge from the action of manifold 'icing', however as Gazman mentions, a supercharger generates nowhere near as much heat as a turbo does.

    The SC12's are a much bigger supercharger - they generate 1200cc's of air per revolution - the AMR500 is tiny in comparison (only 500cc per revolution) but is plenty for a small engine. The key is working out how much volume you need to generate your desired boost - e.g. the amount of air your engine normally consumes + the additional air required to make the required boost (at the appropriate barometric pressure for your altitude). From this you can then calculate how fast you need to spin the blower. In the case of the AMR500 you obviously need to spin it faster than the SC12. (2.4 times as fast to generate the same boost in fact). As long as this speed does not exceed the maximum rated RPM of the blower (up to 16000 rpm for the AMR500) then the charger is okay. People are successfully using AMR500's on engines up to 1835cc. For smaller engines such as a stock 1600 (50hp) this is perfect.

    The SC12 is physically larger then the AMR500, in fact if you align the pulleys of the blower with the crank pulley, the rear of the blower will clash with your fan housing due to it's length. Not an insurmountable problem as there is plenty of room in a bus engine bay but definitely a consideration. If you have a small capacity engine the AMR500 is a much easier option, but for higher capacity engines the SC12 is the way to go.

    Don't want to hijack Karstens thread, but as has been mentioned I am developing an AMR500 kit for sale. I now have my prototype running in my stock 1600 lowlight and it is remarkable what a difference it has made. Price is not fixed yet but hoping to keep it under the price of the speedwell / pepco kits (US$1800) - I feel that this is a reasonable price considering that you will also get a brand new DCOE carburettor as well. Kits will be turn key - bolt on - everything you need. I do not consider that the kit is a high performance upgrade, you will not smash any 1/4 mile records, but If you want to easily upgrade the performance of your 1600 to be equivalent of a 2.0 this is the easy route. Here's an example. Normally to get up the hill at the start of the freeway here in Adelaide I have to change down to third and crawl up it at 60kph. now I can stay in 4th and climb up it at 90-100kph and it is currently only at 5psi. This should be even better when I increase the boost to 7/8 psi. It's still a work in progress but getting very near to the final product.

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    Anyhows - back on topic...

    I love the way that Karsten has designed his supercharger bracket to interweave with the fins of the supercharger - very elegant! (wished I had thought of that first :p ). Looking forward to see how your build progresses (and maybe a race if we meet at the drags ;) )

    All the best.

    Mick.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
    rabidkombi likes this.
  11. gazman

    gazman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,774
    Location:
    Perth WA
    I'd forgotten about that! There was a guy on AVD that had a beetle or two with sc12's, I think he must have spaced out an additional pulley on the crank to fit it?
    I also like the clutch pulley's on the Toyota blowers, you can turn them off when you don't need them :cool:

    Nice looking kit btw
     
  12. T-34

    T-34 Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    RADalaide
    I think they guy you're referring to is Joel, he runs a white German look bug. He used an additional pulley on the front of the crank pulley his setup so the issue wasn't as pronounced but I think he still had to do a little clearancing. The electric clutch would be a great thing to hook up - very mad max :D . I chewed a belt on my charger and found that the car still fine - but obviously without boost.
     
  13. gazman

    gazman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,774
    Location:
    Perth WA
  14. T-34

    T-34 Member

    Messages:
    66
    Location:
    RADalaide
    Yeah the AMR500 gets a bad rep from some, but this is mostly from those who think 'bigger is better'. The proof is in the pudding as they say. Dyno results speak volumes.
     
  15. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    Waiting on the bracket to be made and for the carbies to arrive ... cant wait too get back into it... just got my new 4groove pulley need to get it keywayed.


    oh its on ! haha cheers bro yourve been a big help ... and will continue too be.
     
  16. Wattie

    Wattie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    819
    Location:
    Mildura. Victoria. Australia.
    Without hijacking the thread it's great to see interest coming back into supercharging, I went the whole hog way back in the 1960's by fitting a Wade blower & home made injection system to a MK 2 Zephyr road car! once sorted the lowdown response and torque is addictive and in my case was downright frightening, especially on a wet road.
    Looking forward to seeing the end result, keep up the good work.........Geoff

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  17. vassy69SC

    vassy69SC Active Member

    Messages:
    986
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Cool read

    Looking forward to seeing how you go with this.
     
  18. bay window bandit

    bay window bandit Active Member

    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    sydney
    Looking forward to seeing how this works.
     
  19. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    Still wainting on parts ... ill keep you posted
     
  20. karstan

    karstan Member

    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    Newcastle, Merewether
    Brackets are made and welded ... SC charger pulley has been machined and keywayd ... Carby has been Jetted and ready too go.

    Currently getting the manifold underway. Scat Serpintine pulley on its way from the US.



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