2 ltr type 4 engine re-build journey

Discussion in 'Engine & Transmission' started by rstucke, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    2ltr TIV rebuild

    Setting the scene.

    4 years ago I drove Blitz a 1979 camper converted transporter 1000km home from Hawthorne Vic after buying him sight unseen.

    The vehicle sat in front of Doug and Sarahs place for years and was being used as a storage locker. It had only been driven a few times since it had been purchased second hand some 13 years earlier but had remained registered all that time.

    upload_2018-1-13_20-8-31.png
    I caught a lift down to Hawthorn with Sarah in January 2014 from Richmond (NSW) where she had been visiting her parents, stayed over night with the view of determining whether or not to drive the VW home the next day.

    So next day after an oil change and some fuel (Doug had put a charged battery in already) and a bit of manipulation the engine sputtered into life. I said goodbye around 10:30am on a 40 deg day while the whole of Victoria was on fire what could possibly go wrong.

    upload_2018-1-13_20-9-36.png

    The engine had a lack of power heading out of Melbourne which held me to a max of about 80kmh, it was going to be a long trip. Doug had given me a loan of a collapsible push bike just in case (he didn’t have much faith in me getting home, not sure how it was going to help)

    While driving I thought I’d check out the heater, bad move. The cabin filled with a putrid smell that could outlast Christianity. There was a hint of fuel in that funky brew that got me worried as all that air was coming from around the exhaust, fuel smell was not a good thing. Stopped a couple of times looked all over Blitz, couldn’t see a fuel leak but could definitely smell it so basically sitting in an unexploded bomb.

    I pressed on to Wangaratta in the midday heat. Needed to refuel and wondered why the engine was so doey and using so much fuel. I parked under a tree after refuelling and took another look at the engine.

    When I originally changed the oil the kombi was parked in the gutter and I obviously overfilled it. Let out 1ltr of oil and threw the air cleaner element in the bin. 110km/hr and a new respect for engine.

    I had a phone and was ready to call a tilt tray for a breakdown or emergency services in case we burst into flames (not sure they’d have come considering how busy they were).

    Gundagai saw Blitz low on fuel again. I parked away from other cars after refuelling as the fuel smell was quite strong.

    Goulburn saw the temperature drop, daylight fade and rain start. Good except no wipers and only 1 headlight. Now instead of duelling with semis (pass them on up grades, they pass me on down grades) I was tailgating them as visibility wasn’t good. Got home 12:30am


    upload_2018-1-13_20-10-29.png

    A couple of days later I sent the VIC plates back and started to strip Blitz while I was working out how far to go with a resto and what to attack first.

    Any way the engine came out and sat on a trolley for a couple of months while I started on the rust which is a whole other story that will end up in the resto section (one day).
     
    cbus likes this.
  2. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    upload_2018-1-13_20-13-56.png

    In that time I also managed to build an engine stand/test bed which is similar to the one I used years ago when I was in the reconditioning game.

    upload_2018-1-13_20-14-36.png

    Eventually I pulled the engine apart and here’s the depressing result.


    upload_2018-1-13_20-16-8.png upload_2018-1-13_20-16-29.png

    upload_2018-1-13_20-17-1.png

    upload_2018-1-13_20-17-25.png
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  3. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    upload_2018-1-13_20-23-6.png
    Pretty classy workmanship. I think the guy who put this engine together last was a gorilla.

    upload_2018-1-13_20-24-3.png
    So I was on the scout for a bottom end and figured new everything else.
    A mate had a T3 that was in bad shape except a good camping interior. Removed the engine and FI and he sold the rest on. The engine was pretty crappy as well but the bottom end had promise.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-25-31.png
    close inspection revealed another disaster
    upload_2018-1-13_20-26-21.png
     
  4. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Let that be a lesson to all t4 engine owners, don’t over tighten the oil strainer bolt.

    The problem was helped along by the last jerk who put this engine together (check out the shit used to seal the cases). What the f*&^*w&@t did was put a short bolt in in that spot that only went in a few threads, overloading the end of the boss when the strainer nut was done up.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-27-21.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-27-42.png
    Time to get the TIG out. Nothing to lose.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-28-21.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-28-41.png
    Good as new. Now to check the case halves are flat. Best way to do that is to give them a rub on a surface plate and look at the witness marks. Glass doesn’t cut it, needs to be a proper one (scraped and all that).
    upload_2018-1-13_20-30-0.png
     
  5. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    At this point I’m ready to super clean and send the whole lot to be line bored (mains and cams).
    upload_2018-1-13_20-30-57.png
    The cases went down to Rod Penrose Racing which gave me time to concentrate on crank and rods. Cam was new c25 with new solid lifters so the old stuff ended up in a box somewhere. Rods were bead blasted and went to Easy motors for new little end bushes, straightening (bend, twist and crank) and re-sized on the big ends. Crank was bead blasted, linished (these areas were masked for blasting) and measured. I got a surprise when the measurements were well within spec and std size (I think a new crank got put in on the last rebuild).
    upload_2018-1-13_20-31-39.png
    So at this point I’m starting to play with weights and balances (all in grams).
    upload_2018-1-13_20-32-24.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-32-46.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-33-8.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-33-33.png
    Ready for re-installation
    upload_2018-1-13_20-34-15.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 1:28 PM
  6. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    The Cases came back from RPR with a big thumbs up, no evidence of fretting, cam bores straight as and easily re-sized (this was what the big worry was after welding), Mains bored out to first size up. Plastigauge measurements on the centre main were well within spec.

    Time to tap and plug all (and I mean ALL) the oil gallery plugs. This is not for the faint hearted(I had a major drama with one plug which will come up a bit later), these have to be drilled and tapped and aluminium plugs must be used (because of the expansion rate). The only oil gallery plug kit I have seen (and tried to use) comes from EMPI for a 1600. Not all the plugs are there for a 2ltr and the ones in the kit are crap (I’ll elaborate later). Best option are the turbo alloy plugs(their also low profile) found in speed shops (and evil bay). They are NPT (national pipe thread) as opposed to BSP and there is a difference (1 thread difference and thread angle) so you’ll need some taps. Every hydraulic place I went to has BSP not NPT (American) and will tell you they will force in, don’t do it.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-35-8.png
    I knocked out the large plug that covered the oil pickup pipe (which may have been a mistake but too late). So I machined a piece of aluminium, pressed it into position then TIG welded it shut.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-35-51.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-36-12.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-36-31.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-36-48.png
    Now it’s time to clean and put it all together and concentrate on the top end. Cam gear back lash needs to be right which is a problem. Originally you could get plus and minus gears to get the back lash close to zero but no one seems to remember that stuff so you get what you get. luckily my back lash was spot on for the aftermarket gear I bought.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-37-36.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 1:31 PM
  7. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    upload_2018-1-13_20-39-2.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-39-31.png
    Set up the crank end float (3 shims), torqued up the flywheel and reset the crankcase in a full bell housing holding fixture.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-40-13.png
    Time to setup the pistons and barrels. I settled on flat top pistons with shorter skirts and Teflon coating. This is going to be easier to achieve a higher compression ratio without re-machining the heads. They’re also a lot lighter so the engine should rev free er. Checked the weights and balance.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-40-50.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-41-10.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-41-29.png
     
  8. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Time to lap in barrels and set up deck heights.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-42-29.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-42-47.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-43-5.png
    Time to sort out the new cylinder heads. AMC heads have a reputation for having poor finishing and assembly techniques. So I made a jig that fit my drill press and stripped the new heads.
    upload_2018-1-13_20-43-50.png
    upload_2018-1-13_20-44-7.png

    And now my head hurts so the rest of this post is coming tomorrow or the day after or after that.
    By the way its all done, just haven't finished posting
    see u soon
     
    grantw, grumble, Weekender and 4 others like this.
  9. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,453
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    Fantastic Rick!
    An appropriate old school rebuild.......must feel nice to re-awaken the skills from your Teaching days.....;)
    I’d love to be a fly on the wall if Andrew-1500king- and yourself ever sat down with a beer or two !
    Thanks for showing us how a rebuild should be done. It also helps explain why a proper rebuild costs what it does.
    Too many folks baulk at spending over 4K.......and ultimately get let down with the result.
    Watching with interest.
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  10. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Thanks Mark but I think Andrew could teach me a thing or two.
    I put the cart before the horse in that I went through the cylinder heads before doing the deck heights (you probably noticed the date stamp on the photos) probably because of delirium in trying to put all this in a readable format.
    Anyway moving on. The cast combustion chambers were pretty course, carbon build up in this area will be thick and fast. The inlet and exhaust seat areas were way to wide at about 3mm.
    upload_2018-1-14_14-38-52.png
    Smooth out the combustion chambers, re-cut the seats and clean up the ports a bit too.
    upload_2018-1-14_17-34-27.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-34-50.png

    The original (wide) seats were cut at odd interference angles 45deg instead of 46 and 30deg instead of 31. Valves were at 44 and 29. So I re-ground the valves to suit my cutters which was lucky because one of the valves was not concentrically ground to start with.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 6:06 PM
  11. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    upload_2018-1-14_17-36-28.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-37-8.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-37-29.png
    That’s a better result.
     
  12. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Here’s the next issue. the valve collets are too big, they do not grip the valve when in the keeper. Turns out when they were stamped out the process left dags on the edges. Had to work them on an oil stone to get them right. You can see the difference below.
    upload_2018-1-14_17-38-45.png

    Better check the combustion chamber volume.

    upload_2018-1-14_17-39-29.png

    Surprisingly volume was at 57cc in all chambers

    upload_2018-1-14_17-40-12.png

    There was plenty of flashing between the cooling fins that would block cooling air around critical areas. Take a look at the swarf that came off this head most of it from the through passages.

    upload_2018-1-14_17-40-58.png

    Wash in warm soapy water, dry, lubricate and reassembly and we’re done.

    upload_2018-1-14_17-41-43.png
     
  13. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Time to lap in barrels and set up deck heights.

    upload_2018-1-14_17-43-0.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-43-18.png

    I played with the deck height (shims under the Barrels) I wanted a compression ratio to around 8:1.

    I settled for 8.2:1, reason being any less would have given me a squish gap that would have been ineffective, as it was it wasn’t quite where I would have liked it. On reflection I should have gone 8.5:1 (dynamic compression is somewhat less than static).

    I think if I had to do it again (I'm probably going to build a second engine) I’d use dished pistons and machine the step out of the AMC heads. I have a spare set of new barrels and dished pistons (heavier pistons, but you can’t have everything).

    upload_2018-1-14_17-45-27.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-45-53.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 6:12 PM
  14. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    So now to assemble
    upload_2018-1-14_17-54-36.png
    upload_2018-1-14_17-54-58.png
    We're about half way through
    It goes on and on
    Next time it'll be about rocker ratio, tinware, oil leaks carbies etc, etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 10:01 PM
    grantw and David H like this.
  15. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,015
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Nailing on a set of cylinders/pistons and AMC heads. Confusing info regarding gaskets/shims required. Some manuals say one thing, others another. Heads came with 'Do not use head gaskets!'. So what is the plan? Shim gasket under cylinder? Nothing between heads and cylinder?
     
  16. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,285
    Location:
    newcastle
    Beautiful:D job. Thanks for the thread.:)
    Cheers
     
  17. peter1000

    peter1000 Active Member

    Messages:
    338
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Nice work don't forget the tinware above the pushrod tubes before you put in the tubes and the oil cooler tinware
    thanks for the great descriptive step by step method etc
    What exhaust are you going to use
    cheers pete
     
  18. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    AMC heads come with a warning not to use cylinder head gaskets. That's why they cast the step in the heads(takes the place of the gaskets). You still have to shim under the barrels to get the compression ratio right. I've never liked the head gaskets, the engine only needs to get hot once and the gaskets are cactus. What is important is that the barrels are lapped into the heads with grinding compound, have clearance to the barrel fins, have good corrosion free unstretched studs and a tension wrench used to torque everything down.
    I read an article about some US redneck engine rebuilder advocating doubling the cylinder head tension to stop head leaks. Seems to me a good way to pull the studs out of your cases.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018 at 10:33 PM
    David H likes this.
  19. rstucke

    rstucke Active Member

    Messages:
    328
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    I'm getting to all that stay tuned
    What I'm posting is a history cause it's all finished(thank f%*&#), just need to put in in words
     
  20. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,015
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    More questions:
    I played with the deck height (shims under the Barrels) I wanted a compression ratio to around 8:1.
    I settled for 8.2:1, reason being any less would have given me a squish gap that would have been ineffective, as it was it wasn’t quite where I would have liked it. On reflection I should have gone 8.5:1 (dynamic compression is somewhat less than static).


    Gasket set came with a few sets of gaskets/shims? Which do I use and how do you determine compression ratio?

    I think if I had to do it again (I'm probably going to build a second engine) I’d use dished pistons and machine the step out of the AMC heads. I have a spare set of new barrels and dished pistons (heavier pistons, but you can’t have everything).

    I have new dished pistons and AMC heads. Do I have to machine step out of heads? If so why?
     

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