5 speed vs 4 speed

Discussion in 'Performance' started by tillis, Mar 24, 2017.

  1. tillis

    tillis Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    gold coast
    Ok not sure where to put this(story of my life) but i'm sure i'll get crucified wherever..

    This concerns the bay kombi in my avatar...I have been gradually modifying it over the years and leaning more and more to off bitumen exploring, almost baja style but not going the whole hog that way. I just love poking down dirt tracks and seeing where they go...and sometimes that can get you in sticky situations.

    So...I have the 091 box and don't mind the ratios but i like the look of 1st gear in the 094 box and yet keep a high highway top gear...bear in mind my powerplant is an ecotec V6 which has endless grunt and could really take advantage of that crawler 1st gear and push a very high gear at highway speeds.

    Are the 5 speeders as strong and are they able to be built up as the 091s are?
     
  2. twincabay

    twincabay Active Member

    Messages:
    555
    Location:
    port maquarie
    Not sure but i do know it is a difficult conversion .
    M
     
  3. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Check out subagears. They now have adaptors for Ecotec to Subaru boxes. No personal experience or affiliation with them.
     
  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,663
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    My understanding is that the 5 speeds are not as strong.
    Extra grunt of you engine may further complicate this tendency.
    You are running bigger tyres.
    This is applying more stress on gearbox which is the ' meat in the sandwich' in this equation.

    I would consider a subygears as Paul mentioned.
    Reason being ..
    Choice of ratios.
    Stronger box.
    Availability of lsd for about $650 extra.

    You could also run type 4 cv's to allow for some increased articulation mods.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
    StevieVW likes this.
  5. alexit

    alexit New Member

    Messages:
    19
    I don't rock crawl in my bay, but i am in the process of putting a subi 5 speed in at the moment
    The kombi has had an ej22 for many years now and when my 091 box started complaining the choice to go to a subi box was a no brainer.
    Todd at Subarugears is super helpful so ask him about gearing to your requirements.
     
  6. roverbay

    roverbay Active Member

    Messages:
    771
    Location:
    nambour
    Good evening Col where you mention T4 cv joints can you confirm they bolt onto the t2 flanges I have had differing views on this subject. I know they run 22 degs so would suit rear of ECLECTIC .
     
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,663
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Hi Ernie
    Ill try and dig up the info I found that compared the options.
    Think it was a technical article on something like t3 technique from a link on samba
     
  8. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,663
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2017
  9. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,865
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Don't ever think that Subaru gearboxes are good gearboxes.
     
  10. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    796
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    Why? Seem to work just fine behind my EJ25 Liberty and EE20 Outback. Liberty has been to the moon and back several times since bought new (Outback not far behind) with not a hint of any problems. Clutches yes, gearbox no. So keen to hear what I should be looking of listening for.
     
  11. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,865
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I have heard of a lot having to be overhauled at low kms. The oil has to be replaced every 18 months or some ridiculous time. Hard to shift in cold weather. The ratios in the diesel are really crap. The worst of any car that I have ever driven.

    I don't think that they are a problem gearbox but they are just not as great as people think they are. If I bought another Subaru it be an auto.
     
  12. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    796
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    Fraid I have to say my 2 have not had any of those issues. Perhaps a lot can be put down to operator error? Streath, I sound just like a dealer, although must confess I know of 1 new Imprezza that left it's owner un-Imprezzed with a blown gearbox inside warranty. There is a lot of noise on the inter web about sh!t clutches being replaced at 20 - 30K. Have to say the Liberty is now clocking 270,000km+ on the same pressure and drive plates while the Outback's torque chewed its clutch out at 120,000km. Gearboxes? Quiet, smooth, adapt to the ratios and all is good. Just like an 094 5 speeder. Adapt.

    Guess I could be seen as a Suby supporter??
     
  13. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,865
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    How can you adapt to crap ratios? Slip the clutch?

    6 speed gearbox and first is far too tall. Sometimes in traffic I have to let the traffic clear or keep putting the clutch in and roll to go slow enough. It is near impossible to drive at 40kmh. Reving in 2nd and too slow for third. 60kmh is third gear. Sixth is useless below 100kmh. A lot of owners with steep driveways have had clutch problems. (Mine is a 2014 diesel)
     
  14. tillis

    tillis Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    gold coast
    there is quite a diifference between the close ratios of the WRX and STI and say the liberty 5 speed which has ratios much like the 094 5 speeder. If I go subaru i will order the 4.86 final drive which will keep it user friendly...still a big decision though...subaru's arent indestructable...
     
    syncro likes this.
  15. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    914
    Location:
    Brisbane
    If not Subaru, what are the choices for a 5 speed box?
     
  16. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,865
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Subaru is really the only practical choice. They are just not as good as their reputation.
     
  17. tillis

    tillis Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    gold coast
    maybe a full set of albins cogs in my vw box...i think i'd have peace of mind then
     
  18. gazman

    gazman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,762
    Location:
    Perth WA
    IIRC the 094 has a 5th gear ratio around the same as most 091 4th gears - 0.82. So if you want better highway ratio's an 094 wont help. We have a S1 V6 in the lowlight and with the standard 091 1st gear it feels like it could tow an aircraft carrier up Everest, its too shiny to go off-road but I wouldn't have thought it would need any shorter 1st?... We do have an Albins 0.70 4th gearset which helped a lot with highway speeds, big gap between 3rd and 4th but the v6 handles it easily.
     
  19. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    796
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    Too true. But there is an 094 with the 091 final drive of 4.57 vs 4.83/86 (forget its code) so that should give the best of both worlds - a stump pulling 1st with slightly taller cruising. Not imported to Australia I believe
     
  20. tillis

    tillis Active Member

    Messages:
    151
    Location:
    gold coast
    Thanks for the replies...I'm not looking for lower highway revs...i'm only doing 2500rpm at 100k now because i'm running 265/70/16s at the back. I'm more interested in the 4.111 1st for crawling along...this thing pulls hard from about 800rpm. No rush i'll keep my eyes open for an 094 box...been driving it for six months the way it is and love it!
     

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