77 bay steering and wander... Running out of options.....

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Geez! I didn't even realise I had owned the kombi that long! Far out... and it's still not fixed/finished! I'd put buying this thing at the top of my 'poor life choices' list. :(
    I have replaced almost every moveable part... see list above. There's only a couple of things left.
    Either a replacement part that was installed wasn't up to scratch or there's still something i'm missing!
     
  2. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Ball joints were replaced probably 4-5 years ago. The bus has been on and off the road for one reason or another (incl a 2 year engine rebuild!) so there's no way the ball joints have worn out... in fact they have probably just broken in and loosened up! I might add that there was no change in play or wander from before to after the replacement of the upper and lower ball joints. I have no idea if the relevant bushings were checked. Knowing the shop that did it, I highly doubt it. My understanding is they cant be checked unless everything is pulled apart. Not so keen on that.
     
    David H likes this.
  3. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,860
    Location:
    newcastle
    Given all you've replaced & gained no improvement I'm going with wheel alignment ( & totally agree with rstucke comments as it sounds like the back is driving the front & front having no 'feel' (this is the bit that's going to tell you what to look at. (A nice 'self centre' on the steering wheel is the start of understanding where w/a is out or what needs to be done. This has to be achieved to sort it) .) or steering arm;) as they're the only ones left if the torsion bushes are okay & other bits straight. If I was doing what you showed in that first video the kids would be laughing at the kombi wobble ( may have done this to amuse them when young:p) & prob smack a head into cupboard or window;) whilst sitting in the back seat.
    Good luck. Sounds like you need it after all this time.:rolleyes:
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    Chidori likes this.
  4. 76kampa

    76kampa Active Member

    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Perth
    I know this might sound odd and I agree that the rear alignment would have a big part in the wandering, But, I had a thought..... could it be that the Chassis that the steering box is mounted to, flexes?

    Just a thought.
     
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  5. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,860
    Location:
    newcastle
    It be a rare Kombi whose chassis has cracked:(.
    They wobble;) but flex is not the issue here (they got a great flexi chassis:D..esp with front sway bar off:D)..unless you got some cracks in the front end chassis:oops:. Wish Chidori could drive mine to feel what they're s'posed to be like. Campers are heavier so 'hold the road better'. But it's the back of the bus that directs where it's going;). The steering wheel is an optional extra:rolleyes:. Start with setting up the back end first. Get that right & the front will finally lead;).
    No knowledge here other than physics.
    Tail up (higher) with camber on rear (helps grip where the weight is). Puts weight to nose. Nose needs right camber/caster/toe to feel the road.:D. Puts weight in the right spot;). Balance:D.
    Then you'll 'feel' where the 'balance position' is on your chassis.
    Mine's 2' behind the seat bulk head... almost in the middle. Varies with water load....moves it forward with full water & both us onboard!

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
    onetrackwonder and Chidori like this.
  6. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,342
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Just thinking........................
    I can understand alignment front and rear causing wandering
    A mate had all sorts of troubles until he replaced the rear arms.
    One was bent whom a whack a millennium ago

    But a 10' to 2' movement in the steering wheel with no movement in the wheels HAS to be mechanical "play"

    No?
     
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  7. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Thanks for all of the input everybody - you people are alright. :)
    The bus is currently living at my parent's house as I'm cutting out all the rust, etc to get it ready for a spray.
    I'll get it up on the stands again tomorrow and have a serious look at what's going on underneath (again). This time I will video and take a whole lot of photos.

    I'm sure that the wheel alignment is way out of whack - and probably contributing to the pull to the left and even a bit of wander on the freeway.
    I personally dont think that it's causing the 'play' in the steering wheel.
    I did install rear drop plates from Fresh Kustoms recently - so that may have something to do with the rear alignment being out of whack. Not a fault with the product, but maybe just a result of everything coming apart and then being put back together.

    i will check what I can - but hopefully when it goes to the steering gurus that I mentioned above for a proper alignment - hopefully they will be able to work out what's going on under there.
    Thanks again everybody! :)
     
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  8. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,860
    Location:
    newcastle
    Look forward to the posts for further knowledge. Looking forward to more photos/videos. Any chance you've got one of mum on the steering wheel:);).
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  9. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,860
    Location:
    newcastle
    That be my comment. If you can't drive down the freeway 'hands off' with 'self centre' it be a bad w/a.
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  10. tillis

    tillis Active Member

    Messages:
    145
    Location:
    gold coast
    Gee! what an epic! I tried to read it all thru but gave up. Sorry to hear of your troubles re steering. I probly only have one piece of advice...toe-in. Seems to me there are a lot of dinky parts to a kombi steering system and a tiny bit of play in each adds up to a lot in total. So you driving (or puttering) down the road or highway and friction wind resistance and every resistance possible is holding your front wheels back and using up all that play and flex in the steering parts. Result? toe-in turns to toe-out and poor old kombi doesn't know which way to turn(sounds like a lot of us)
    I do my toe-in myself with a stringline and like at least 10mm...now admittedly i have huge tyres and horsepower but i can cruise at 120 and overtake at 145 in the blink of an eye but my point is...Toe In!
     
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  11. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,220
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Watching with interest result with rear alignment.
     
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  12. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    Goulburn
    Good luck with a rear alignment, I asked a number of shops around here and they all looked at me like I was out of my mind......
     
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  13. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It is near impossible to get a wheel alignment done properly. I've just travelled 120kms to get one done at East Coast Suspensions, Taren Point. All of the other places that I have used have retired. Never get an alignment done at a tyre shop.
     
  14. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    Goulburn
    It tools us a couple of years and 3 sets of tyres before we found someone that could align our Amarok! So now we buy tyres at one shop have them fit then take it straight around to a mechanic to do the alignment.
     
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  15. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Does he have to adjust anything or just check? Whenever I have had a proper alignment done, I have never ever had to do it again until I change something.

    The mechanic should tell what was correct and what was OK. I was told that the toe in was 5mm out and camber was 1/2 of a degree out and the rear was perfect. If he just talks about toe in/out then he is too lazy to do camber etc. If he says that he knows better than the factory specifications because they are for the northern hemisphere or left hand drive or our roundabouts go the opposite way, then walk away.
     
    oldman likes this.
  16. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,720
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    Bob Jane refer to this as a “thrust alignment”......never taken a kombi there but have had the Subaru done. Always been happy with the service......def. not saying all BJ outlets are the same but they do understand the concept of a four wheel alignment.....
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
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  17. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    Goulburn
    The first time was after a certain VW dealer in southern Canberra had 2 goes at setting it - we went through 3 sets of tyres in 50,000 km. Lots of vibration issues and generally poor handling. ( formal complaints were made to VW Australia)

    After we finally gave up on monkeys and found this young fellow in Goulburn all issues went away.

    The next time we have used him was straight after we bought our second rok, we got over 50,000 out of the original tyres.

    Then after new tyres/ hitting Roos / new bull bar etc.
    It gets a lot of high speed off road work :rolleyes:
    So all good reasons for adjustments and good life, no vibrations.

    If your in Goulburn and have a late model car True Blue Automotive are the people to see.
     
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  18. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,833
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  19. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Ok, managed to take some video today. Apologies for the video that's all over the place - it's pretty tight underneath the bus now that it's been lowered!
    I didn't have time to jack it up, etc unfortunately, so this is what I've got.
    What I did seem to notice was that there seemed to be a noticeable off movement of parts at or after the centre pin. As you can see, the steering wheel, drop arm, drag link are quite noticeably moving. However when I look at the tie rod ends and the centre pin arm, it's moving a lot less the parts before it. This could be quite normal... i'm no steering engineer - it's just what I noticed under there in the limited time i had. I couldnt feel any noticeable play or looseness in any of the parts. Maybe you guys can spot something I couldn't - but other than the lack of movement at the centrepin - I'm stumped.... still.

    How about that dog across the road in the background?!!!



     
  20. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    868
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    I should mention that we changed the centre pin and the bushings etc on the old beam and no improvement was noticed.
    I also had the new beam installed with adjusters - and at the same time installed replacement bushings and new centre pin kit.
    Still no difference.
     

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