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77 bay steering and wander... Running out of options.....

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,601
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean by “lots of up and travel” but if you hit a decent bump and your van continues to “bounce” 4 or 5 times you have a shock issue
    Bump stops only stop the shock “bottoming” out.
    If you lower your car you are “robbing” some of the travel so the chance of bottoming the shock out is increased.
    Shorter shocks moves the “neutral” position of the shock back to the “at rest” position
     
  2. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Have your bump stops refitted securely.
    They are there for a very good reason.
    Possibly some compromise could be made in height.
    You can get different height bump stops.

    Agree with Barry's comment. What shocks?
    They are critical to stability.
    Could be part of your issue.

    Wouldn't be surprised if they are trashed due to no bump stops or wrong length for amount of lowering.
    They work best midrange.

    Lower profile gives more benefit than width.
    But both help.
    You can notice each 5% drop in profile.
    By going wider you change % profile even tho sidewall may stay similar unless you go up rim size.

    Haven't personaly tried these tyres but reading tests suggests an acceptable degree of grip.
    Like the weight rating and xl means you can up psi to gain stiffness and balance front / rear.
    https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/brands/hankook/optimo-k715?sSize=

    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/205-70r14-tyres
    205 is as wide as you should go in 5.5 wide rim.
    205/70.14=643mmOD
    195/75.14=648mmOD.

    Check any tyres against actual tests here
    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Search/Size/205-70-14

    https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/
     
    Chidori likes this.
  3. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Looking for more tyres.
    If you get the above the tyre place will know jack shit re pressures.
    Start at 34psi front and 42psi rear.
    I don't know how the tyres flex .
    Look for good turn in and back to follow without shifting sideways much.
    Reduce pressures 2 psi at a time if bouncy.
    Balance against rear sway.
    If rear shifting too much in relation to front you can drop front or increase rear. At those pressures I wouldn't expect its much.
    Learn to feel the difference between tyre flex/ pressures and opposite corner jacking effect from soft shocks.

    Further testing later ;)
     
    Chidori likes this.
  4. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    newcastle
    Bloody finally. Not going to say it was suggested ages ago.....:oops: just did;).
    Now I can sleep:p finally!
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
    syncro likes this.
  5. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,316
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It is very hard to get a wheel alignment in Australia. Most people go to someone because "he is a nice bloke". Then he uses his own specs because of roundabouts, Asian tyres or global warming. And there's the old favourite "you can't adjust camber on these".:mad:
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    And for the " not obvious rear camber tweak".
    http://www.type2.com/dakhlia/images/VW-44.6.jpg

    https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=519100

    https://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=8373
    Limited.

    Lowering makes rear camber negative.
    Likely out of range of above "tweek"

    Bent trailing arms can also bevout 9f range.
    In such case they need replacing with a good one.
    Bent is not obvious while installed.
    Left hand side usualy worse due to hitting potholes on edge of road.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
    TeeBee, Chidori and Barry like this.
  7. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Read back through the posts - I have had about 10 wheel alignments since I've owned the bus. Usually after each part was replaced. Only thing different here is that I have gone out of my way to track down one of the most respected suspension guys in the state who deals with everything from classic cars to high end race cars. As a customer, I can only assume that the people I have paid/am paying are doing what I have paid them to do.
     
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  8. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    I actually sent through the rear alignment instructions to the suspension dude last night. ;)

    I'll see how we go once I pick it up and have some lower profile tyres installed. I wont be spending any more money on sorting the steering after this.
    If it's not fixed - it's getting sold.
     
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I have the attitude that having had good handling busses, and am a fussy sod re expectations as my younger day fetish was ( às an amateur) good rubber and tight handling balance, that any bus can be made to handle in an acceptable manner( for a box) .

    If it doesn't handle safely, there's a reason. ;)
     
    Wayne murray, tintop, Chidori and 2 others like this.
  10. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,316
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I never assume anything.
     
  11. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    What would you do then? Go get a wheel alignment, get the car home and then do it yourself again to make sure it was done correctly by the professional that you paid to do it? Or take it to a second person to check the first person's work?
     
  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    No.
    Would do homework as you have done, discuss with mechanic to assure myself they are worth the risk, discuss so that I understand what they are doing, compare test run to learn how changes affect on the road.

    All as you have done so far .

    Trust??

    Not unless judged trustworthy and produce the goods. :D
     
    syncro likes this.
  13. Mellow Yellow 74

    Mellow Yellow 74 Active Member

    Messages:
    845
    Location:
    Sydney
    No, before you pay you ask them to show you the printout from the machine which shows the as-found and as-left readings for camber/caster/toe and compare them to the Bentley specs that you gave them and asked to adjust it to.
     
    David H, Grantus and cbus like this.
  14. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    471
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Chidori...considering someone's lowered your bus, the geometry could be out...but shouldn't be too bad because it's not super low. It's great you've found someone who will adjust to specs. As per previous posts, it's difficult to find anyone who knows how to do anything apart from toe (my local franchise of a well known company says they need the car for 2 hrs - and checks the database to see what parts they stock for your car - and surprisingly that's what you need - even if you replaced them when you just rebuilt) :rolleyes: Patrick
     
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  15. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,712
    Location:
    newcastle
    Mine were always done by a trusted mate. He retired (as only old w/a guys can do!!...re tyred!) Last one was by a local tyre company. He didn't have a spanner big enough to adjust one of the parameters (hey Chidori I pay cos I can't! do it). Still turned out fine & self centre is good as is wear showing it's good.
    Totally get your frustration with paying & not getting:mad:. Here's hoping the right person makes your bus balanced:D. Want to drop a name after you drive it & it's all good;).
    Cheers
    PS. Congrats on one of the longest running threads & if that w/a doesn't fix it I'm a buyer;):).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
  16. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Well, a wheel alignment by somebody who knows what they are doing made the world of difference! It's 'almost' a pleasure to drive!
    There's still a little more play in the steering than I would like, but most of the other symptoms that made it horrible to drive have gone!

    No longer do I have to fight to drive in a straight line, it holds it's line really well.
    Even holds up against big trucks passing and the wind factor is much less of an issue.
    The steering returns to the centre when turning both ways.
    In general - it's just much nicer to drive. Much closer to how I expect a kombi to drive.

    I seriously recommend visiting Hakon Suspension in Somerton, Vic if you need a wheel alignment. Not the cheapest, but when you consider how many useless wheel alignments I paid for - paying the $120 or so for an alignment that makes your car a pleasure to drive is completely worth it. https://hakon.com.au/
    He has even offered to tweak it if required after putting the new boots on.

    Final step is to replace the tyres. At present I have 185R14.
    I was thinking about some 195/65/14 - for a little extra width and a little less movement in the wall of the tyre themselves.
    Just need to make sure there's no rubbing given the van is lowered a little. Also want to make sure it's not too much lower that it scrapes on driveways, etc.
     
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  17. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Thanks for the feedback.
    Well worth the money and proof of what a proper alignment does.

    Don't go 195/65.14.
    Far too small.

    The 205/70.14 I mentioned above are a good size and about the only 14" choice I would reccomend out of all options I have found from an extensive search.
    People who have gone from ,185 to 205 in a 15" maintaining OD have found the improvement results in better stability and road manners.

    I believe you will get similar even from the 14"
    I certainly noticed difference between 195/75 and 195/80.
     
    Chidori likes this.
  18. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,709
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The old tyres alone can give some crap handling characteristics.
     
    Chidori likes this.
  19. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,316
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    That's really good news and I hope that other owners learn by this.
     
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  20. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    978
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    It would be good to know what angles were incorrect (and how far out they were) or what the cause of the crappy handling was.
    Any chance of asking if you don't already know?
     
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