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77 bay steering and wander... Running out of options.....

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Definitely second Rick's qn re before and after numbers.

    Also a lesser point.,.
    interested in max and min extension of suspension front and rear.
    Shock part numbers.
    Could be the final link after tyres.?

    Guess its not up for sale now :cool::D
     
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  2. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    He said that the only setting that was even close to being correct was the toe-in settings (but they were still off and uneven).
    Everything else was out of whack. He did say that the worst offender was the camber on the front wheels which were completely different to each other.
    I didn't get into the details with him - as he was very sympathetic to my "steering journey" and very much encouraged me to come back if there was anything at all that needed further adjustment - especially after the new tyres were fitted.
    Lucky for me he's right next to the ring road and it was quite windy - so I tested it out and was going to take it straight back if it was still wonky - but the difference in steering was instantly noticeable.
    Considering the limited driving i've done since i replaced the shocks they are virtually brand new. He confirmed shocks are healthy and a good match.
    Rear shocks are literally brand new.

    Other than tyres - i'm leaving the steering as is for now...
    Its not quite up for sale yet... working on getting rid of some minor rust still.
    With a brand new engine and all new steering - if I was to sell it - the body would really let me down - so still trying to find time to repair and paint.

    Will update after tyre change this week.
     
  3. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Hey guys,
    Tyres should be getting fitted on Saturday.

    Just wondering - with the 205/70R/15's, given that the current size is 185R14, should I be concerned at all with the possibility of rubbing on the front wheels when turning? Especially given that the van is lowered slightly?

    Also, curious to know - given my current tyre size only has R as the middle number - does anybody know what size that converts to? 185/?R/14 ?

    Also noticed that load rating for these is 98 - is that still within spec for a bay?

    Sorry - don't know much about tyres!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Are you going to 15"?
     
    Chidori likes this.
  5. chris taylor

    chris taylor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,733
    Location:
    adelaide sth aust
    I replaced my radials with Toyo light truck after going down the same path as you ,have never replaced the steering box but did every thing else,tie rod ends , shockers ,and so on. soon as i started using L/.trucks the difference was noticeable,
    As cbus suggested straight rib pattern on the tyre will help ,now it has been mentioned, {hadnt thought of that before and it makes sense} and definitely correct tyre pressure .tighter at rear than it is at front. nose down ,bum up ,it seems to work. Extra weight on front seems to stabilise the steering a bit. eg..like towing a trailer with weight in it ,bum down, nose up ,steering becomes very light .
    Something to work on. Sorry Col hope my info is on the mark sort of.
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The R stands for 80-82 profile in the 185/ R 14 useage.
    When its directly after numbers its a different system and stands for radial ply.

    The required load rating for bay is 94 if Lt or 97 in passenger construction.
    The 98 is good as you can go higher but not lower.
    .
    If you had a missprint and are going 205/70.14 then its the right size and rating for the hankook 715.
    Don't go anything else unless you check all details first.

    Load rating correct.
    Size fits and has OD of 643mm vs 650mm on your 185/80 14.
    Should take pressures of 45psi and up. Check.
    Fits your stock vw 5.5x 14 rims.
    Better comfort and grip than light truck
    Will sit on road better with the extra width.
    Less side movement due to ratio change.

    If current tyres don't rub on compression while turning then these ones won't.

    You are adding only 10mm to each side of the tyre.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    Chidori likes this.
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Chris' comment re handling is more related to pressures than height.

    I do like a bum up attitude but in his case the balance derived from rear being stiffer than front is the main factor.
    If the rear is allowed to sway then it steers the front.
    If both move st similar rates its stable.

    The effect of weight on front is accurate.
    Trailer should be loaded to have weight on towball but its too much if affecting front height and steering more than slightly.
     
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  8. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/brands/hankook/optimo-k715?sSize=

    They were $100 off x4 last week.
    Ask jax to match Bob Jane @$121 this week.

    Make sure the fitters do nuts up by hand .
    Torqued to 95ftlb.
    Jax usualy care better than Bob Jane.

    Start at 34F 42R psi.
    Up the rear x 2psi if still wagging its tail but I doubt it.
    Can come down to 32/ 38 then balance front rear handling if needed for comfort if lightly loaded but that's minimum I would go.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    Chidori likes this.
  9. Wayne murray

    Wayne murray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,337
    Location:
    Seven hills
    I'm :confused: confused your looking at 15's but currently you have 14's . You need new wheels if you are going to 15 or am I missing something.
     
  10. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Ah! My bad... sorry for the confusion - 14's!

    Thanks for answering my questions! Always appreciated!
    Unfortunately those tyres don't come under the hankook $100 discount offer at either JAX or Bob Jane. :(
    All good though, I'll still run with those.

    Excited to see how I go after they are installed!
     
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  11. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Still interested in before and after numbers if possible.
    Satisfies the curiosity.:D
     
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  12. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    No numbers sorry - other than the wheel alignment guy saying everything was completely out of alignment.

    Apparently Hankook in Melbourne are out of stock of that tyre, so they have to get them shipped from their warehouse in Radelaide.
    New tyres next week now. :(
     
  13. chris taylor

    chris taylor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,733
    Location:
    adelaide sth aust
    For what its worth i only use Pedders for my wheel alignments ,they also suggested Toyo tires for the van .after all they are suspension specialists. After the tyres were fitted they did a complete inspection then did the whl align .all good .
    Col ....have now increased rr tyres to 44psi (being L/T should be able to handle it) frt 36. looking forward to trying out handling side of things.
     
  14. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Specialist = can't do anything else ;)
     
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  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The tyres can handle the pressure.
    Its just a case of what you need without making the ride uncomfortable.

    See how you find it and check the tread depths.
    I suspect the 36 f will be a bit harsh
     
  16. chris taylor

    chris taylor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,733
    Location:
    adelaide sth aust
    Replying to my own comment,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,44 rr very bouncy ,hard, front was 36 wanders easily, felt very light .

    Reduced tyre pressure from rr ...Was 44 now 40 psi,feels more comfortable and severity of ride reduced ,,,,,,front was 36, now 32, steering is firmer but not severe ,wander has been marginally reduced, Tyres are Toyo Light Truck Ho 8s. Tyre pressures were set while tyres were cold using my own compressor and gauges {not sure of accuracy}.
    Will leave as is for now .Not sure how to do a tread wear test so will try to measure the centres to see if wear is more or less than the sides .
    Adjusted the rr brakes for good measure, ,noticed a double peddle feeling when applying but now is all good.
     
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  17. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Hey guys, got the tyres fitted on the weekend.
    First problem was that the guys at the tyre joint (which had a crazy amount of 5 star reviews on google) must have forced my gear shift in every direction trying to get it into gear/reverse and completely moved the shift plate. So, when I got out of the place and went to change to 2nd gear - it didn't exist. Ended up driving for 30 mins with no 2nd gear. Fixed it by spending an hour re-adjusting the gear shift plate. Grrrr. Weird because I'd beeen driving the van around all morning including from Melbourne to scoresby and back with no problems. I provided them with feedback - since they asked for it - but so far only crickets.

    Anyway... first thing I noticed with the new tyres was how quiet they were! It's amazing the difference compared to the old tyres that were on there. I'm assuming because they were older and harder rubber. I was impressed by that aspect - if nothing else.

    As far as handling goes - they were shocking - literally all over the road again. I thought I'd made a mistake getting these tyres! Either that - or I thought they screwed up my alignment - even though i very clearly told them not to touch it. After driving out west and back home to Melbourne, i thought out of curiosity I'd stop at the petrol station and check the tyre pressures. Sure enough, the tyre shop people inflated front and back to 40psi. Ugh. You'd think that since that they actually leave a leaflet in your car saying "we have ensured that your tyre pressures are correct" they would get it right. I deflated them down to 32 and 38 and at 40kph it felt a bit better/heavier, but I was right near home - so haven't had a chance to take them on the freeway. Will let you know what it's like after a drive on Saturday.
     
  18. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Retards and untrained monkeys.:mad:
    Definitely give appropriate feedback.
    Hopefully they managed the balancing.????

    Check invoice to ensure they didn't touch alignment.
    Throw up business name concerned.

    As you had been driving the tyres would have heated up by at least 2psi.
    Allow for this when adjusting pressures next time unless its from cold and only a few km at moderate speed.
    Hot day and hwy allow 4 psi.

    Fingers crossed.
     
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  19. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    904
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    They gave me the invoice at the start and it had alignment on it for $55.
    I pointed out that I hadn't asked for that and I don't want them to touch it.
    I included that on the feedback i provided to them that I thought it was rude that they just add it on there and don't even talk to the customer to see if they need an alignment.
    Surely lots of car enthusiasts have their suspension and alignments dialled in as they like it and just doing an alignment without asking is only going to cause them problems / arguments.
    If they touched it - I would have been making them pay to have it re-done properly.

    I wont name and shame until they respond to my feedback (if they do at all). The owners were really nice to deal with and provided great customer service.
    I'm guessing it was just the trained monkey out the back that decided to force the car into gear - rather than to call me and ask for advice on how to correctly to it - I was 5 mins away.
     
  20. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,263
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Bad staff are a factor of poor management.
    Management hires, fires, trains, sets standards.
    If they don't then they are the problem.
    And that's from an ex manager ;)

    That's why I don't tolerate rudeness to or from front line staff.
    Deal with the manager.

    If its a " team leader" ? . Give up and go somewhere else :oops:

    But yes.
    Give them the opportunity to respond/ fix first.
     
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