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79 Bay, worm and roller steering box repair

Discussion in 'Steering, brakes & Suspension' started by rstucke, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. twincabay

    twincabay Active Member

    Messages:
    559
    Location:
    port maquarie
    Great Tech article Rick!!! for those with late bays, but what about us early folk? any sage advice for us?
    I read on earlybay.com that their weak spot is the"peg" Schofield has these apparently and seals.
    I have been contemplating going over mine i have one on the shelf it has clean oil and doesn't leak but there is a little knotchiness in the middle of its rotation.
    Now I've seen inside yours i am thinking i don't have the rescues or skills to approach it little own a lathe.
    Have you peeked inside an early? If so any advice would be help full.

    Thanks Mitch
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  2. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi Mitch
    Sorry for the late reply. I've been on the Burnsville track with my adv bike and only got home last night.
    The early boxes had press in bushes and therefore don't need the machining processes like the later ones.
    The Bentley manual has a section on their repair.
    I've not done one off a VW but have o'hauled very similar boxes on old trucks (Leyland & Bedford) although physically larger.
    There biggest problem is the groove that the peg sits in on the worm. The groove tends to wear in the middle causing slack which adjusted out then causes tight spots in the unworn (less worn) section. Bushes and pegs I think are available but not so sure about the worm and worm bearings.
    pull it apart and have a look
    By the way I used to live in Port. Very busy place these days.
    Cheers
    Rick
     
  3. marcus williams

    marcus williams New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    newcastle
    Hi RSTUCKE,
    You haven't got around to having any exchange steering boxes yet? I'm in need of one for my 74 bay. going up the coast in a month and I can't get one any where in time.
     
  4. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi Marcus
    Returned from moto GP at Phillip Island today
    Spent 11 days riding and am stuffed.

    I have an exchange.
    Pm me when you have time.
    Rick.
     
    andrew and cbus like this.
  5. andrew

    andrew Active Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Richmond
    Thank you very much for the thread. Awesome step by step detail. The boys and I are finally sorting out a roadworthy and will look forward to putting our steering to the test - to me it feels like a lot of play but it's been years since I have driven the kombi so I think it will just be me getting used to it.
    I'm sure all of us reading this thread would love to have your skill and experience.
     
  6. marcus williams

    marcus williams New Member

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    newcastle
    G'day Rick,
    Thanks for the reply, Phillip Island that's something on my bucket list lucky bugger :).
    Well since i posted the first message things have changed a little, I have only had my new kombi 6 weeks so after rebuilding the motor have had little time for anything else.
    In desperation thought i would have a look at this steering box, i released the adjusting screw, removed the pitman arm, got my wife to move the steering wheel as i adjusted the screw till there was just a little friction. This left 10mm of thread sticking out. Put it all back together took her for a spin around the beach and bingo stayed in a straight line.
    Seems that there was no "float" if that makes sense as if it wasn't adjusted properly since the previous owner had just about everything else under there replaced.
    I haven't taken kombi out on the hwy yet to see if speed will make any difference, if it is no good I'll get back in touch.
    Once again thanks for the reply...any pictures of phillip island?

    Regards Marcus
     
  7. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi Marcus
    I'm guessing from what your saying that the box was adjusted too tight. This is a major cause of them wearing out in the cross shaft bushes. If you've got 10mm on the adjuster and the steering feels smooth you've got a good steering box (check the oil level under the steering column cover). If you've still got wander on the Hwy the most overlooked part are the inner control arm bushes which when worn allow the upper and lower arm to move back and forward a couple of mm just enough to upset the apple cart. Hard to detect in an inspection and difficult to replace (Overlooked on purpose sometimes) I drove bay windows when they were new and have difficulty agreeing with people who say they didn't handle well from the get go.
    If anyone is looking for a box, I have one.
    If anyone is interested I'm looking for cores to refurbish for exchange but as most know they are difficult to come by and some are well past help. I'm not advertising in the for sale section as I don't want to be inundated.
    As for the Moto GP I've got some pics of the moto 2, 3 and GP and some of the Barry Sheen memorial ride I'll put up in the off topic section when I get them off my camera.
    Hope your kombi handles as it should
    Cheers
    Rick
     
  8. Steve murphy

    Steve murphy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi rick. I'd be interested in that steering box for my 77 camper. Steve.
     
  9. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi Steve
    Have you introduced yourself in the new members area and do you have a worn out steering box?
    Cheers
    Rick
     
  10. Steve murphy

    Steve murphy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi rick.
    I have just recently made the purchase of a 77 camper and just joined the site. I will introduce myself to the members
    I have an ok steeeing box I think but it is weeping a little oil from the roller shaft end so would like to replace it.
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  11. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi Steve
    Welcome to the joy of owning a kombi and the pain and suffering that goes with it.
    The reason I asked if your box was worn out is because I repair these boxes on an exchange basis.
    Cost is $400 plus postage and your old box.
    I can repair your box but it's a 2 week turn around.
    You've read the thread so you know how it will be done (except now I also bead blast the housing)
    The way this works:
    you send me your steering box, I open it to make sure it is repairable (some have had damaged worms which makes the box unusable)
    I send you the exchange unit.
    If your box is trash then you find a second hand box that isn't and get it to me and I send you your old one back at my expense.
    If your agreeable to this then send me a pm and I'll give you my details.
    Cheers
    Rick.
     
  12. Steve murphy

    Steve murphy New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi rick. I would be interested to do the exchange. I'm planning on heading to Woodford folk festival over Xmas to new year in the kombi so need it going then. Would we be able to do this in the new year as the kombi will need to be off the road for a while to do it and there will be no time line then
    Steve
     
  13. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Chidori's steering box
    PB210006r.jpg
     
    gazman and Grantus like this.
  14. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    So exciting! Cant wait to replace that rubbish thing that I have in there at the moment and put this baby in! :)
     
  15. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    622
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    I recently put some stuff together for Chicory to help install new steering box and to have the best chance of getting to the bottom of his wandering issue.
    I thought it might be useful to any one having a similar problem.
    This rant assumes that all steering and suspension components have been checked for serviceability'

    Gearbox oil 90 weight or greater must be used to fill the steering box
    It must only be filled to the level of the pitman shaft and no higher (there must be an air gap or you'll get an oil leak from expansion). this is best done on the bench holding the box the same way it would be held in the vehicle.

    The rubber coupling on the bottom of the steering shaft is not splined (like the corresponding shaft on the steering box). The bolt on the bottom of the coupling must be tight or there will be excess play at the steering wheel.

    The very bottom of the pitman shaft has an alignment mark that must line up
    with a mark on the pitman arm. There are 2 marks on the pitman arm, one with an "L" and one with an "R". Your kombi is right hand drive so pitman shaft must be lined up to "R". This cannot be checked after the pitman arm nut is installed. The pitman arm must be held away from full lock by a suitable pipe when tightening.

    The straight ahead position needs to be checked at this point. If your wheels are in the straight ahead position and your steering box is not in the middle of its lock to lock position then your kombi is going to wonder all over the highway. This is because a worm and roller steering box has play away from the centre position normally (the further away from the middle the more play, try it with your new box).

    The process for checking for centre.
    Make sure your connecting link (the one that goes from your steering box to the lever on your centre pin on the beam) is disconnected at the pitman arm.
    Turn your steering wheel 1 and 3/4 turn in from either lock (left or right, doesn't matter).
    Have your front wheels in the straight ahead position.
    At this point you should be able to lift the connecting link and it should line up and fall into the pitman arm. If not then you will continue to have wandering steering.
    The fix is to adjust the tie rods until the connecting link fits in the pitman arm.
    If your kombi has only one tie rod that is adjustable and things don't line up then you have a problem as playing with the adjustment will affect toe in and means something is bent. Quick fix for this is finding an adjustable tie rod to replace the fixed one and another wheel alignment. Best fix is finding and fixing what's out of wack.

    And now my head hurts.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2016
    cbus, Chidori and MAP77 like this.
  16. andrew

    andrew Active Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Richmond
    Hi Rick,
    the work you are doing on the steering boxes looks amazing. My kids and I have been restoring our kombi for the last 2 years and finally have it on the road. I have changed the tie rods, put koni shockers etc and had it aligned today but still have it wandering in the steering driving along on the freeway. The steering feels light and without any notches or flat points - just a floating feeling which does not feel safe.
    There is still some adjustment with approx. 6-7mm of thread. Should I adjust it up or is it better to exchange it with you. We have done up the kombi to enjoy for many years to come so I am keen to get it as good as it can be.
    Kind Regards
    Andrew
     
  17. andrew

    andrew Active Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Richmond
    Sorry I should have added that the kombi is a 1976 2l car
     
  18. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    I got a rebuilt box from Rick and the his work and customer service is top notch! Great guy and so helpful!
    I can recommend a new box and it will be almost like new!

    It's pretty simple to adjust a steering box though - check out your manuals and give it a go. It's possible the problem is elsewhere - eg, centre pin, drag link, rubber steering linkage, and a few other places that need to be checked. But even so - you can't go wrong with a new box that will last for another 30 years. :)
     
    andrew likes this.
  19. andrew

    andrew Active Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Richmond
    All ticks for me -thanks Chidori I'm sold - will look forward to hearing from Rick and getting the new box in place. I will also have a good look at everything else - I changed the drag link but did not change the steering linkage as it looked in good nick.
     
  20. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    885
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    also check the bushings in the centre pin. apparently a well known place for wear.
    cant hurt to undo the lock nut on your steering box adjustment and tighten it up 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn and see if that's helped the play in your steering.
    at least if it resolves your problem or improves it you know that's where your issue lies.
     
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