Creative IRS

Discussion in 'Resto Corner' started by Split 1, Jun 21, 2007.

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  1. Split 1

    Split 1 New Member

    Messages:
    7,077
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Heres some questions and answers from Creatives site regarding their IRS kits

    What is an IRS and why should I install it?
    IRS stands for independent Rear Suspension.
    If your current transmission or reduction gearboxes are on their way out, you should consider the change.

    What are the transmission of fitting an IRS system?
    The main benefit will be fitting of a later Bug transmission. This will give you better syncros and shifting, a higher top speed (expect approx 70mph with a 1303 tranny and 1600tp engine.), Better fuel economy with a longer fourth gear. You will also suffer less from tyre wear on a more lowered bus over a lowered swing axle system. To sum up you will get a more "modern " feel with the conversion.

    Will it fit all year splits?
    The kit was designed to fit any Split screen bus that has the top hat section support that runs from the left chassis to the right chassis underneath the engine. That should make it approx 57-67. The earlier buses have a round tubular support from left to right of chassis. This system could be installed on those earlier busses with minor extra work.

    Can I retain stock ride height?
    The answer is no. When you get rid of those old reduction boxes you drop 3.5". Any IRS conversion from us or anyone else will lock the Cv,s if you try to go back up 3.5" on the spring plate. Your drive shaft angle will be to great. Don't try it. If some one tells you, you can, question their knowledge.

    Does that mean I will need to lower the front?
    If your bus has never been lowered at the front, the answer is yes unless you like front high buses.

    What transmission do I need to get?
    Any Bug transmission with CV drive output will work. Traditionally a 1303,1303S or better still the Gt tranny were always recommended. However the difference in performance between any of the above would be hard to notice under normal driving styles. Your are still in a bus !

    What parts do I need from you?
    1 pair of new chassis legs
    1 pair of upper shock mounts
    1 replacement bolt kit (recommended)

    What original VW parts do I need to find?
    You will need the following standard parts
    1 Bug transmission (see above)
    1 pair of bug Cvs (its false economy time wise to use old Cv,s , buy new ones)
    1 pair 68/69 bay window bus swing arms or CE new replica 68/'69 swing arms.
    1 pair 68/69 bay window bus CV joints. ( its false economy time wise to use old Cv,s , buy new ones)
    1 pair 68/69 bay window bus Spring plates or CE new adjustable 68/69 spring plates
    1 pair complete hub/brake assembly from 68/69 bus if you wish to keep the large 205mm pcd bolt pattern, or 70-80 hubs if you don't mind the smaller 112mm pcd.
    1 pair swing arm axle (early) Bug rear shock absorbers.
    1 pair new upper shock mounts.
    DO NOT BUY MODIFIED SWING ARMS OR SPRING PLATES.

    Can I use 70-80 swing arms and spring plates?
    No, you CAN NOT use any other year swing arms or spring plates with our system. must be 68/69 !!

    Why do you only use these parts and not the easier to find later parts.
    The main reason for these parts is that they keep the correct geometry when installed with our mounting brackets. With our kit, the pivot point of the swing arm is centred over the pivot point of the CV joint, meaning that both the CV jointed drive shaft and swing arm, swing in the same axis. No other IRS kit on the market does this. Secondly, to keep the large bolt pattern meaning that your old wheels will bolt back on.

    I hear some companies offer kits using shorten later swing arms why is that?
    The main reason is that there are lots more 70-80 BUSES lying around. When the shortened swing arm is installed outboard of the CV joint, increased wear will occur. (See above)

    How come you're the only company that make you chop of the old chassis legs?
    That's because nobody else can put the swing arms in the right place. The old chassis legs are in the way!( See above). Buy fitting our chassis legs where we tell you, you will get prefect location every time. You will retain 68/69 factory geometry.

    Why do all other kits have clamp on swing arm brackets?
    They make it easy for customers with only a little know ledge to get it completely wrong !
    See if you can think of any type of car that has the suspension brackets welded on when you think they are in the right place after you've completely installed the rear end? We will give you a bracket and tell you exactly where to weld it, knowing that you will have correct location for you then to bolt in your swing arms which will then meet your spring plates EXACTLY. No guess work, no doubt.

    Someone said I need to shim the CV joints. What's that about?
    Without shimming of the Bug Cvs it is possible for the bus drive shaft to travel unrestricted through the CV and smack on the output flange of the gearbox, eventually causing damage. By shimming the CV to stop it from sliding inward, you prevent that from happening. This will cause no problem as there is little movement at the transmission end of the drive shaft anyway and plenty of room for movement at the outer CV. This is explained in detail on our fitting instructions.

    What gearbox support do I need?
    You can use either the Bug or bus one but you will need to grind or cut a very small piece of the corner of it. Its only a minutes work. This is just to clear our replacement chassis legs which we made bigger for extra strength.

    How long does it take to install your kit?
    It takes about 3 hours to remove you old chassis legs and fit our new ones. It then takes about 2 hours to install the VW parts. If you allow a day you should have time for a few coffees. This assumes you have all the parts you need to hand in a suitable condition and have the correct tools to hand.

    What about replacing the large spring plate bushes and change them to urethane?
    For what they cost, I would replace them while you've got every thing in bits and then you know you will be getting the best from your conversion. Use VW rubber ones NOT urethane. VW designed them that big to cope with the fact the spring plate arc is longer than the swing arm arc un yet they are bolted together ! This is VW 's biggest deliberate mistake. Something has to give. Urethane will not compress like the factory rubber ones and will start to destroy themselves and try to move the hub on the spring plate.
     
  2. thepanelman

    thepanelman New Member

    Messages:
    89
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Nice work, that's great help. Thanks a lot.
     
  3. Rhys

    Rhys New Member

    Messages:
    248
    Location:
    endeavour hills, Melbourne
    magnificent dave....just magnificent....

    i dont know how you found the time between selling house, packing, moving, installing the IRS kit and posting this as well as answering my dumb questions...

    this has to be made a sticky!....please!

    peter
     
  4. Vito

    Vito New Member

    Messages:
    197
    Location:
    Adelaide
    One question can I buy it all from Creative ? As 68 /69 stuff is starting to get hard to find and expensive?

    Vito
     
  5. big dave

    big dave Member

    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Creative engineering do make new adjustable spring plates, control(A) arms, weld on chassis legs. and new brake drums that go on to late bay hubs but have wide 5 bolt pattern. Have a look at www.creative-engineering.com

    and talk to the bus stop, as they sell their gear.
     
  6. winerot

    winerot Active Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    mullaway/arrawarra
    steve who does my resto's has a full set of the creative irs & is installing into a 21 window.
    speaking to him today about it & looks like i will be selling the irs kit (aust built) for my mango as he is very impressed with the creative setup.
    will post a pic when its all in.
     
  7. Split 1

    Split 1 New Member

    Messages:
    7,077
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Yep the quality is the best you can get.
    Some people thing the local ones are ok,,,,until they see these.

    There is a reason they are used so much in the UK.

    Dave
     
  8. urbexdweller

    urbexdweller Member

    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Adelaide
    any pics of these kits ? or a website link ? and perhaps a before and after pics of a bus ?
     
  9. back street bessie

    back street bessie Active Member

    Messages:
    4,358
    Location:
    Kangaroo Point 4169
    Save The Bays

    Oh no when will it end...leave the bays alone. .......:umm: :mad:



    YEH!! thats excellent news...SAVE THE BAYS :)
     
  10. Roy

    Roy Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    5,609
    Location:
    Mudgeeraba, Qld
  11. Split 1

    Split 1 New Member

    Messages:
    7,077
    Location:
    Adelaide
    I drove mine for the first ime last week, it has the Creative IRS and it handles great, now I know why so many people in Europe swear by them.

    Dave
     
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