electronic svda distributor

Discussion in 'Fuel System & Electrics' started by francispj, Dec 13, 2016.

  1. francispj

    francispj Member

    Messages:
    175
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Just a heads up on an electronic svda dizzy .
    I fitted one I bought and it worked for about 7 months but completely broke down about 2 weeks ago.
    Cartek jumped through hoops (carbies, vacuum lines settings )on fuel before nailing the fault.
    Looking at the Samba forums they have constant trouble with these; even the petronics units so I'm back on points
     
    peter drogi likes this.
  2. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,670
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    If people spend $$ to get a quality unit and these EI modules are set up properly, they are usually bullet proof. Not saying that they don't fail, always exceptions to the rule, however with no moving parts, it's usually owner error or cheap parts when setting up that causes issues.(not referring to the dizzy here, just the EI unit...)
    I've been running a Petronix unit in a stock dizzy for well over 5 years now, without issue. Timing hasn't altered one bit since install.
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
    StevieVW likes this.
  3. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,570
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Have seen new complete dissy petronix units that throw a realy crap curve and spark all over the place.
    Usualy an issue with the poor quality mechanisms / distributor that its based on.
     
  4. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    17,696
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    I had the dizzy go in Igor ('73 Bay) and so opted to go for new Bosch Dizzie and elelctronic ignition - all done via VW mechanic as was in for annual service ..... never an issue.
    The current Type3 also has electronic ignition and it's been in it for a number of years and no issues with it also.

    As Col has said it's the quailty of parts that makes the difference ...... some of the kits through parts suppliers are plain rubbish and fail then they don't want to know you. Many owners fail to see the benefit with spending more $$$$ on important parts that help keep these old machines running as trouble free as possible.
     
  5. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,705
    Location:
    Goulburn
    just out of interest what brand/model was the electronic diszzy you had the trouble with
     
  6. StevieVW

    StevieVW Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,470
    Location:
    Somerset, Tasmania
    CBB's black box might also be a possibility...
     
    oldman likes this.
  7. merrymike

    merrymike New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Hey guys, this seems to be a regular topic of conversation - what dizzy to use. I splashed out and bought a 123 TUNE+ distributor. No springs, weights or points.

    The advance curve of the dizzy is 100% programmable. You hook it up, pair to your phone/tablet via Bluetooth and then input the advance curve.

    You get a little screen dash on your phone that shows RPM, vacuum, what advance you are at and the engine temp. It's pretty nifty!

    If you find yourself pinging or get a bad batch of fuel you can tell the dizzy to retard timing by a couple of degrees.

    I set mine up so it has the full advance coming in at 3200 RPM rather than 3600 RPM like the Pertronix units do.

    Has a funky feature called "spark balancing" which measures the output of each cylinder and balances the power by individually advancing or retarding the timing on each cylinder by up to half a degree so the van runs super quiet, very little engine vibration at 100 km/hr.

    Went out and road tested, was feeling boggy, made the advance come on a little sooner 1000 - 2000 RPM and now the van flies. Very little throttle required to drive at 100 km/hr.

    Van pulls really well - I have a Scat c25 cam and twin Weber 40s.

    You can buy them a lot cheaper direct from the Netherlands.

    EDIT:
    You can also program in a rev limiter (random spark stealing)
    It works as an immobilisation system (Enter a PIN code through your phone to unlock the engine)
    You can now advance/retard the timing as you drive by up to 5 degrees to tune on the road.
    The dash shows GPS speed on it as well.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2017
  8. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,705
    Location:
    Goulburn
  9. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,705
    Location:
    Goulburn
    Splashed out alright - that looks like about €400
    That's about $560 not too bad I guess considering a Chinese thing that LOOKS like a distributor is about $100.

    I guess you have the choice of $560 for something that works v only $100 for something that doesn't :confused:
     
  10. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    This looks very interesting! :rolleyes:
    Being a bit of a tech head I love the idea of this, plus the functionality of the smart phone display. Be really interested to hear how it performs over a bit of time, sounds like you're happy so far?

    re cost, considering its got a tach built in too, and how much they cost to buy, its actually not too bad. Plus no more points to replace and minimal service? Plus potential of saving damage to engine with bad tune etc..

    Dammit, I was trying not to spend anymore money! :confused:
     
  11. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,705
    Location:
    Goulburn
    Just do it Dan you know you want to
     
  12. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Can't see 2L EFi engine listed, have sent an email to local distributor (no pun intended... :D)
     
  13. merrymike

    merrymike New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Dan SA - the VW 123 ignition with preset curves has curves more for Beetles and earlier buses although people have had success using them on later model Type 2s.

    Update on the 123 - Did a roady Melbourne to Apollo Bay and back on the weekend. When cruising on light throttle the engine noise is a lot less than it used to be. Most of the noise up front is wind and road noise now. Over the rolling/hilly section of highway behind Geelong no dramas at driving at 100km/hr except for one steep section where had to drop back to 80 and run in third. Temp gauge was showing 90 degrees after doing the hilly section behind Geelong.

    The section of highway from Geelong - Colac - no issues driving at 100 km/hr over the rolling sections.

    Hillier sections around Great Ocean Road - no dramas keeping up with traffic and more an issue with van handling dynamics rather than speed (brick on wheels effect), even with the Bilsteins on board.

    Acceleration is different - a lot smoother and quieter so it feels like the van isn't working as hard or going as fast. Just get a nice note from the exhaust when the C25 cam comes into play. Had a couple of moments where I was in a 60 zone, looked down at the Speedo and realised I was speeding - which is something that normally doesn't happen in the Kombi.

    Have done 330 km on a tank and need to fill her up to see how much fuel I used (my fuel gauge is on the blink). I'm pretty happy with that as there is a lot of 2nd and 3rd gear hill climbing and hair pins around the Otways!

    Only issue I have had so far is because the engine is at the back of the van and there is a fair bit of metal/stuff between the dizzy and the dash, I can't put the phone on the cradle with the app on and watch the engine data in real time. .

    My recommendation would be (if you are really into the data analysis stuff) is to buy the older 123 TUNE with the USB connection and find a path to run a long cable up to the cabin and use a laptop or windows phone/tablet instead. I find the 123 TUNE+ android app a bit fiddly to use, more of a set and forget tool than something to do on the road tuning with.

    The other feature the dizzy has is that you can program the lower RPM limit at which the vac advance kicks in. So if your carbs pull a little bit of vac at idle (my old carbies did), the dizzy won't recognise that as a signal and your ignition advance will sit at 7.5 degrees on idle.
     
  14. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Sounds good.

    Unfortunately not available for 2.0L EFI engines :(
    Just for others looking, this the response from local distributor:

    "I have just been informed that 123 does not currently make a 123 for your Type 4 engine. "
    "

    I have investigated further and found that you have two options


    Use the 123 and advance the 123 in situ.

    Viz

    The Pertronix 009 EI Mechanical Advance Distributor was not meant for a VW Type IV engine... only the Type I! The advance curve is a bit more drawn out compared to the advance curve that one would normally use on the Type IV. You would have normally had a sharper, more abrupt curve due to the weight of the VW Bus etc. With that said you can certainly use it as it has been used in the past. The timing though has to be set quite advanced though. Usually you have to run the timing at about 32-36 degrees before Top Dead Centre(TDC) on the Type IV engine. Normally the Type IV engine would have used a Bosch 050 Mechanical Advance Distributor which is no longer available. Pertronix has not yet designed an 050 style distributor for a Type IV engine.


    This is a Petronix Distributor solution to the same problem.


    Alternatively,

    Consider using a 123 TUNE model and build your own curve.

    There are several discussions on the VW-Samba website in USA."

    Bugga...:mad:
     
  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,570
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Getting a petronix to throw a steady spark would be a start ;)
     
  16. merrymike

    merrymike New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Dan, 123 TUNE will work fine.

    http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm#B1979CA

    This page shows the advance specs for every VW aircooled engine and application. The curves for buses are pretty similar across the board.

    The Ratwell site shows graphs that plot the curves for a number of dizzies and they are all very similar even though they are for different vans.

    Do you not have vacuum advance as well?


     
  17. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA

    Love it!!!

    Thanks for the heads up, buying one! Perfect! :)
     
  18. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,503
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA

    Don't worry about that old boy, buy the vac advance version and I have the resources to program up with the 2L bus advance curve for both mechanical and vacuum.
     
  19. merrymike

    merrymike New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Just an update to my previous post - Got a chance to refuel the van on the weekend - 340 km off 42 litres of fuel - so sitting on 12.4 litres/100 km for the trip. That is a mix of highway and windy/hilly driving on Great Ocean Rd/Otways, plus a little urban driving. Can't complain with that!
     
    PICT likes this.
  20. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,670
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    This looks really interesting......:cool:
    Cheers,
    Mark
     

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