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Fitting Non standard wheels- Photos/other info

Discussion in ''How To' & 'Handy Hints'' started by felixqld66, Jan 19, 2008.

  1. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    Hi CBUS, OK, I think I'm getting this slowly, so lets say I go for the EMPI FUCHS 911 STYLE WHEELS that I posted the picture of earlier in this thread from Just Kampers & I go for the 17" rims as Heidi isn't lowered & I don't intend lowering her, I'm presuming (rightly or wrongly) that the studs supplied to go with the EMPI rims will be longer than standard as they are sold as a package to fit the T2 Bay.
    If so what size tyres would you suggest for the 17" rims, I was hoping for something with a smaller side wall? Your knowledge is greatly appreciated. ;)
     
  2. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I have run a similar pattern on my bay and t3.

    I would guess that the wheel nuts may well go deep enough.
    Prob is, the thread may not be all way.
    They are aluminium which are not generally a good idea .
    All this can be sorted.

    The wheels fitted on first posts in this thread to the yellow / blue bay are the ones I have been running.
    They are 7" wide , 17" dia, ET25.
    I run 235/45.17 tyres.
    These sit well for rim width.
    Slightly small for OD at 643mm

    I would prefer 225/50.17. For slightly more height.

    The 235/45.17 are a common sizing and good tyres avail from around $120.
    225/50.17 prob a bit dearer.

    235/45.17......643mm
    225/50.17......658mm
    215/55.17......668mm
    235/50.17......668mm

    668 is enough to fill guard slightly without changing power much.
    It is also close to the legal, non notifiable , increase legally allowed of 25mm from memory.
    Taking stock tyre being 653mm.

    Choosing tyres...
    .Essential is load rating. 94. Or 97 if unrated passenger type. ie no Lt or xl on sidewall.
    .I recommend being legal to ensure insurance cannot baulk if a claim is made. Enough choices avail.
    .Anyone who says you have to run light truck is talking BS.
    .Almost all 17" passenger and Lt rated tyres in the sizes you will be looking at will have much improved stability over a 14" of any type.
    .you will not have any additional issues with aquaplaning if choosing a medium to good tyre.
    .you will have access to much better grip tyres..
    Steering will be marginally stiffer at low speeds ,hard lock and parking.
    .stability will be much improved as it all starts with tyres.
    .Check your front bearings are correctly adjusted.
    .have a proper 4 wheel alignment done by someone suitably qualified who knows how to work on kombis.
    Demant before and after settings printout.
    Stock settings a good point to start.



    I like a ribbed pattern as have found it much better for steering and straight line directional stability on kombi.
    Flex not an issue as most that you look at for grip will be also good case.
    Plus you are running a much lower profile so already have improved stability accordingly.
    Width also helping.
    You will feel the extra width on parking and hard lock but its ok.
    A reason to keep front pressure up at 32-34.psi .

    Grip comes from compound more than pattern.

    I assume your main running is road?

    Not looking for much off road capability.?
    It will be about same as 175 Lt 14".
    Rims more vunerable to big potholes and rocks.
    If going off road, keep your 14" rims and grab some suitable dirt tyres.
    ( stuff all avail until you go 15" rim)

    Go through actual magazine tyre tests to determine tyre you want at what price.
    Remember that most light truck tyres are crap so most you are looking at are better.
    But forget the less known brands as some match the average light truck 14". ( there are a few 14" Lt that are ok)

    I will dig thru a few suggestions.

    I ran maxxis 511 and they were excellent for price and generally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  3. Nigel

    Nigel Member

    Messages:
    626
    Location:
    Canvey Island, Essex, UK
    When comparing load ratings & load indeces, keep in mind that these are applicable at the maximum inflation pressure specified on the tyre's sidewall. If you inflate your tyres to a lower pressure, the load rating will also be reduced by a similar proportion. The relationship between inflation pressure and load rating, up to the maximum load rating, is approximately linear; being a very gentle curve if one is being pedantic.

    This is something I need to consider when choosing suitable 205/65 R16C or 215/65 R16 commercial-van tyres, for use with the 2001/02 Mercedes C-Class 7J x 16 inch alloy wheels (37 mm offset), on my 1973 VW "1600" Type 2 Westfalia Continental campervan.

    [​IMG]
     
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  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    True.
    But to prevent confusion.
    max load rating isn't usualy what we are running.
    It is necessary to get establish correct pressure for load, driving habit, conditions vs tyres.

    With the 235/45.17 on 7" x17 rims on my bay and t3.( mainly driver plus 50kg, predominately hwy) 34f36r has been good over two sets if tyres..
    Any more in rear and the centres wear too fast..
    Handling is balanced.


    A start..

    Many more high load rated in the 235/45.17 but too small OD for stubus' purpose.

    Bob Jane has finally added prices to its selector.

    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/235-45r17-tyres
    Reconfigure at top of page.

    www.jaxtyres.com.au/maxcontacttm-mc6?sSize=

    https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/brands/michelin/primacy-3-st

    A link that has opinions that I take with a bag of salt but more importantly includes links to actual tests.
    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-Auto-Bild-Summer-Tyre-Shootout.htm


    Another issue.
    Do you want to save cash and look for second hand mags?

    What's budget for rubber.
    Remembering that its what does the work.
    120 -160 for medium to good. ( still much better than stock sized unless you go unknown brands ). Common sizing helps.
    180-250 Real grippy stuff usualy found on performance cars. Less common sizes.

    Its not that you intend to race but safety and accident avoidance comes from a "better than average" tyre selection. Stability, higher grip levels, recovery.
    I usualy chase something with good wet grip and recovery, easy input but at reasonable cost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
    STUPOT likes this.
  5. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    Hi again CBUS,
    thanks again for sharing your knowledge.
    I think I'll go with the 17" rims (picture attached) I just spoke with Just Kampers on the phone & they assure me the studs they supply are long enough & they are steel not aluminium, they say they don't sell aluminium studs at all, he did say if I was concerned at all my original studs could be used but may need a cover to look as good as the blanked studs. The wheels are 7" wide & I defo wouldn't even consider a budget tyre, I've had a look & think I'd go for the Continental MaxContact MC6 225/50R17 98W XL tyres. (picture attached) They cost a little more but what price safety? :confused::D:confused: IMG_20190130_145426.jpg IMG_20190130_151024.jpg
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I think we might have crossed purposes on studs.
    Studs being the male thread on the vehicle.
    Allways steel.
    Some better than others due to quality of fit in spline.
    https://www.justkampers.com.au/211-...-vw-t2-bays-1971-1979-and-t25s-1979-1992.html

    The nuts that come with the wheel package are aluminium.
    As per...
    https://www.justkampers.com.au/70-2...fitting-empi-alloys-to-vw-t2-bay-and-t25.html

    I remain sus if empi quality bits like nuts as well.

    Back in the day there were continual issues with poor quality mag nuts.
    Jk were also selling nuts that were poor quality at one stage ( as were most suppliers) my guess is that issue may have been sorted.

    There is a quality stud and but option available from the states.
    Someone will recall the site.
    EDIT.
    http://www.t3technique.com/lug-nuts-studs-and-bolts/

    Hopefully the supplied NUTS will be threaded full length to make up for being aluminium.
    Personally I wouldn't use them but that's your call.

    The issue is....
    A stock nut is steel and has a quality thread.
    Many aftermarket are poor quality steel and crap cut threads.
    These have been known to strip.

    I'll go into that later.

    If you are happy to spend around the $ 200 mark , ill throw in a few more options to confuse :)

    I have no experience of the continental pictured but will investigate.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  7. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    Darn it! Spanner in the works, but that's why I'm asking the questions!
    I don't want to spend $2,000+ on wheels & tyres to find they aren't what I was expecting. Thanks for all your help CBUS, you are a STAR!
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
  8. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    I must admit, it's not as easy / simple as I'd hoped getting the Porsche 911 Fuchs style wheels on the Kombi. I'd like both but I certainly will not sacrifice safety for looks! :(:mad::(
     
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    All just my perspective.
    I am no professionak but mucked with it a bit as have most of us.
    My thoughts are...

    If you like the wheels they will be fine and fit.

    The nuts will be fine as long as you don't cross thread them or overtightened them.
    Rick or a few others may confirm or say I'm talking BS.
    Their input would be good.
    But I would go steel which are available.

    I shouldn't admit it but I have run same wheels from another maker on stock length studs for years.
    No problems at any time.
    The nuts go on for about 14mm rather than the usual 19mm as with factory steel wheels.
    By engineering standards a nut should cover as many mm of threads as the bolt is in dia.
    ie, 14mm diameter bolt/ stud.
    Nut goes on 14mm.

    On transport dept rules the nut face should be flush with stud face.
    This gives the full depth of nut engagement which in our case is 19mm on factory wheel nuts.
    One reason is likely that it gives a quick visual check that the wheel and nuts are seated properly.

    The issue you do have to check if buying some steel nuts is that the ball or taper on the nut matches the wheel.
    Available in quality steel if you decide it's important to you.

    What I was thinking is that the depth of thread in the aluminium nuts supplied may be full length of stud , which would be an improvement ( one I don't fully expect)

    EDIT,
    http://www.t3technique.com/lug-nuts-studs-and-bolts/
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
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  10. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,854
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Col (Cbus) is spot on as usual.

    Wheels look good, and should work, although I am no fan of Empi quality in general, but that’s just me.

    If I was going down your path, I would be looking at matching steel longer studs pressed in, if needed, to ensure correct length of thread for the nuts to be secure and safe.

    Plenty of suppliers around on line, that can also supply correct steel nuts with the studs, to ensure the job is done just once.
     
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  11. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    Sorry CBUS, I've just realised, I've been writing STUDS instead of NUTS!
    I think this wheel change is driving me nuts! Grrrrrrrrr!
    I thought buying a complete set of rims & NUTS (I got it that time) to suit the Kombi would be fairly simple. I'm realising its not. :eek::eek::eek:
     
  12. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,854
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Requiring a 5 x 112 PCD, and a correct offset for a straight bolt on answer, has always been a challenge for any Kombi owner. ;)

    There’s not a lot of options, but the Empi ones you’ve linked, look to be the closest without requiring any centrebore machining, or spacers.
     
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  13. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Building a list that ill add to then chase more info.

    Scroll down to the list of actual test results
    This is a pattern identical to my NLA maxxis that I found to have good steering behaviour.
    Obviously carcass construction is also a major factor but these are top of the range rubber. Well in excess if usual kombi and family car tyres so should be good.
    Only issue may be lack of wear durability but the kombi won't be throelwn around as much as what these are normally fitted to
    I think someone on kc is running these ??

    http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Michelin/Pilot-Sport-4.htm

    https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/brands/michelin/pilot-sport-4?sSize=

    https://www.jaxtyres.com.au/tyres/brands/michelin/pilot-sport-4?sSize=

    https://www.bobjane.com.au/a/225-50r17-tyres/hankook/ventus-s1-evo2-a0-225-50r17-98y/9522

    https://www.bobjane.com.au/a/225-50r17-tyres/continental/premium-contact-6-225-50r17-98y/11937
     
  14. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,730
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    CA1AD0A4-641A-4CA2-A9B7-C38D5E101D86.jpeg The Empi’s on a lowie
     
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  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    For anyone a bit price sensitive on rubber ( like me ) , a couple of popular sizes make for lower prices but a reasonable choice combination of grip, weight rating, rims to suit.
    A lot of 16" rims out there second hand.

    Choices are even wider in good rubber if you want to compromise the +10% roads Dept rule for passenger tyre figment to ex Lt / C rated vehicles.
    Personally I would have no issue with a 96 ( a number if good options often in that rating) but legally you may? have a remote chance of issue with insurance if they get pedantic which can happen.
    If I had a continually heavily loaded van or was going in stoney outback tracks then I would run upgraded Lt tyres. ( not tradie long wearing types)
    Rough remote tracks , better with some wall height and steel rims. 15" and 16". Some steel rims stronger than others keep offset changes and widths conservative.
    Remember that vw did fit passenger construction radials but they were still C rated.

    215/60.16= 668mmOD.
    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/215-60r16-tyres

    235/45.17=643mmOD.
    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/235-45r17-tyres

    205/65.15= 648mmOD.
    215/65.15=660,mmOD
    215/65.15 are dearer and mostly 96 rated. Poor choice
    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/215-65r15-tyres
    205/65.15 good range.
    Suit 5.5-6.5" rims.
    https://www.bobjane.com.au/s/205-65r15-tyres
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  16. STUPOT

    STUPOT Member

    Messages:
    69
    Location:
    Carseldine
    Hi Barry,
    Thanks for the picture, did you have any issues with fitting the EMPI rims? Were the existing studs long enough or did you need to replace them?
    Are they EMPI nuts supplied with the wheels? Any issues with the nuts (ball end fitting or thread length?
    Any info greatly received.
    I'm thinking of giving up on the idea of alloy rims & sticking with the 14"steel wheels if the studs have to be re-done to fit the alloys! :mad::(:mad::(:mad:
     
  17. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,730
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Stupot
    This is not my car - it was a bloke called Spearsy. He bought my beetle.

    Anyway- you would definitely need longer studs.
    They are dimensionaly the same as the Airevo’s I run and they need them
     
  18. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,837
    Location:
    sunshine coast
  19. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS

    I rang a buddy from the RMS who has 30 years experience and was an inspector for Auvis workshops (Blue slip) in NSW
    He said to the best of his knowledge the RMS has not been made aware of aluminium nuts for wheels, and if they were they would probably ban them.
    He said if they were chrome plated then you wouldn't be able to identify them easily which is maybe some are getting away with it on inspection (wheels aren't removed).
    He did ask me if I didn't mean nuts for aluminium wheels (aluminium wheel, nuts)
    I showed him the JK add and explained others on the forum have seen these personally.

    I guess some alloys have a high enough tensile and sheer strength to do the job (aircraft industry use them) but I'd want to see that in writing from the manufacturer, and get approval from the relevant transport authority.
     
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  20. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,041
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS

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