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Freshly rebuilt engine - Oil light on!

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Oct 10, 2016.

  1. jobell

    jobell Active Member

    Messages:
    580
    Location:
    Walwa, Victoria
    [QUOTE="Chidori, post: 590362, member:

    I'm convinced this kombi has been cursed!!![/QUOTE]

    Nah.... I think they test you to see if you are worthy :) Hang in there!
     
  2. vwfreak03

    vwfreak03 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,550
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania
    I think maybe one or both of your valves may be causing you the trouble. Normal Psi is 42 at 2500rpm. You say yours was tested cold at 42psi so it's spot on. I think your oil is by passing the cooler making your oil hotter quicker.. Losing pressure as a result.. PhotoPictureResizer_170129_203615163-1560x2080.jpg PhotoPictureResizer_170129_204157266-1560x2080.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  3. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    Hi 1500king,

    Thankyou soooo much for that extensive post.:D I'm no mechanic (bush only!) & it will take me some time to digest this post but it tends to show & give the best explanation to my experience with '76 2lt carb & f/i models.
    It explains what I've experienced with the 3 that I had provenance on.:)
    Lucky me I've got the F/i.:rolleyes: Thought they were a bit fussy with how they work but starting to see that a carb model is even fussier (oil wise/mixture etc & thus heat)! Go figure.. yeah I'm going try to figure all that you've posted.
    So the injected is not drilled on the RHS due to electric fuel pump? Just trying to let you know the lack of my mechanical knowledge!

    "WILL create an internal oil leak at the fuel pump pushrod" .

    Is this internal leak that causes poor oil pressure due to 'flow direction'?

    "If you run them lean, even slightly, the combustion flame gets MUCH hotter and the cooling system cannot deal with it."

    & CHT gets hotter & wears out all things it contains:rolleyes:!

    Some comments of mine here.
    http://forums.kombiclub.com/threads/fuel-injection-sopru-camper-76.54501/

    Brilliant post & thanks for taking the time.

    Now if you could just answer why 74 to 76 models rusted so little (assembled in Aust) & 77 to 79 rusted (imported) so quickly you'll have answered all my long standing questions & I'll come to Adelaide & buy the 'guru' a beer or few!:D

    Very much appreciated.;)

    Cheers,
    David H
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  4. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,545
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    42PSI is the wear limit and at 2500rpm...and with a 20/30 wt oil which is much thinner than 20w-50 @70-C. A motor with flogged out cam and crank bearings will achieve this and no pressure at idle..

    The oil cooler is bypassed(but still in the circuit)@ 65-70PSI, not 42psi
     
    Maxa1967 likes this.
  5. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,545
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Replies within quote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
    David H likes this.
  6. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    Hi 1500king,
    "Clayton went to the german seam sealers where previous to that it was the "violet crumble" slop from Datsun."
    Could you tell me more of this pls.

    Clayton I presume is South Aust assembly of Kombis? & the "violet crumble slop from datsun" ? Had one Datsun ...didn't last 3 months before I killed it so rust wasn't a problem:rolleyes:. Is this about paint coming off as panel is folded?


    So "
    late 75 to end 76 have differently sealed seams" due to German intervention? Tell me about sealing seams if you've got time.

    Got any idea where Aust assembled Kombi steel came from in that era?

    Had 3 AFM's in my F/i. (600,k). They have all behaved differently with the engine but 'danced nicely' with the mechanical side. Performance & fuel consumption the only differences. Funnily.. the better the performance the worse the fuel consumption. Richer mixtures do less damage:) (& cool things). No variance of motor longevity with different AFM's:D.
    You could see on carb models exhaust obvious rich mixture. Stops them getting hot but does wear them out quicker. BTW same mechanic on all vehicles for 38 yrs. Sounds like he 'favoured' rich mixture.

    Beers already earnt.

    Thanks & it makes so much sense.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  7. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,545
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    AFM's are very specific to application, Bosch part number will reveal the spec. They may just have had different degrees of wear.

    Replies within quote.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  8. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    Thanks for your knowledge & thanks for your 'seam sealer' post.
    Thanks so much for your knowledge.
    Sounds Like I owe you a carton.!:rolleyes:
    PM me your address & favourite beverage.
    Delivered to your door with huge thanks.:)
    Cheers,
    David H
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  9. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    Got a spare AFM from Rstucke that looks like it left the factory yesterday (ala brand new).

    Previous ones were also like new.....as in overhauled.....nice copper & contacts both sides! Nice to have a 'critical' component spare.

    I'm saying it's about how the electronics 'dance' with the mechanicals.:)

    PM me. I'm serious about your reward.
    Cheers,

    David H
    Oh....& you're the only other person I know whom has used the term "potentiometer".
     
  10. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    Just to confirm my understanding of your explanation. We have the flywheel & the mechanical fuel pump running off the same end of the engine?
    That doesn't happen with F/i.
    Oil flows differently because of this?
    Obviously that end of the engine has 'less work to do' without fuel pump? Yeah.. I know it's small but it all counts.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  11. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    hi team,
    thanks for the many replies!
    Just to recap here's what's happened during my rebuild/s:
    • Engine began spewing oil from flywheel end during run in - I'm not sure from where - but I think from the seal area.
    • Sent back to builder where he took it apart, checked everything, put it back together and same result.
    • Took it apart again - sent case to machinist and had everything double checked. Different oil pump, oil cooler installed and springs/valves (as discussed above) to rule these out as the issue. I believe a crank sleeve (cant remember exact name) was also installed at flywheel end to ensure no leaks. Engine run in by builder and no leaks - all appeared ok.
    • Fingers crossed.
    • After first freeway drive (home from builder) i noticed oil light come on at hot idle.
    So, it would seem that the problem only began after the original machining - because the oil light never came on before it was rebuilt.
    The oil valves were only replaced on the third attempt (i believe) to rule that out as the problem.
    What would cause oil to p!$$ out of the flywheel end and possibly also cause low oil pressure - even once the flywheel seal had been completely sealed off and not leaking anymore?

    I'm only across the details that the builder has given me - which I've listed in my posts as above. He's been building these engines for a long, long, time and has been using the same machinist i believe for most of that time - so he is absolutely stumped as to what the issue is. Given his success rate and even the positive reviews that are on this forum for this particular builder - i simply believe that i'm just unlucky.

    I will pass on your amazing insights to our builder. However given this is the forth time it will be rebuilt - i'm pretty ok with his suggestion of starting again with a new case. Both him and i dont want to chance it again with a potential 5th rebuild!
     
  12. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,801
    Location:
    Goulburn
    When I built my first Kombi engine I had oil spewing out from the flywheel end - I reused the cam shaft plug - pulled the engine down and fit a new plug and all was well (not saying tha was you problem just what I experienced)
     
    Chidori likes this.
  13. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Well.... I'd lost count of how many times my engine had to be rebuilt and how long it has taken... but it took 6 rebuilds and coming up to 1 1/2 years to finally get my bus back with a working engine. Finally the builder decided to swap out the case for a replacement case and have that machined. Thankfully - there has been no oil light on since. (touch wood!) It seems likely to me that either there was an invisible crack in the original case that only showed it's ugly head once the case had been machined the first time... or the machinist made a mistake with their measurements which caused a problem with oil pressure. There was never a problem with oil pressure prior to the case being machined - so it seems the likely culprit. The crank was also polished - however given that the oil light is yet to turn on unexpectedly in the new case, it seems that was unlikely to be the issue.
    The bus is running great at the moment - however i'm just waiting for my own rebuilt carbs and dizzy to be returned to me - as there was a mix up with the engine builder and my parts ended up in another customer's car. :( Looking forward to getting them back and this whole drawn out process being over and done with.

    Unfortunately as I haven't had the bus for over a year - I haven't been able to do the rust repairs that I was hoping to do and the paint, but i have made a bit of a start. I cut out the pop rivet patches the last owner did under the sliding door window and welded in replacement metal. My welding is quickly getting better! It's nice to know that I've also done it properly (i hope!) feeling more confident to attack the bigger welding jobs. however, thankfully there's not too much to do.

    I installed the rebuilt steering box which i bought off here. The steering is 90% I reckon. I'm not convinced that i installed it right on dead center and that the wheels are aligned correctly - will have to check that once i get some time. All the other parts have been replaced since I've had the bus, including the front beam and centre pin!
    I also now have a lowered bus! The replacement beam has adjusters installed and Fresh Kustoms drop plates on the rear. It's not 'slammed' but it definitely looks less like a truck and more like a cool van. The bump stops have been removed from the front and I actually really like the ride and suspension. Better than it was before it was lowered I think!

    Mechanically - there's not much that hasn't been rebuilt or replaced. The gear shift bushings would be the only thing that needs reasonably urgent attention. Should have replaced those when the engine was out. Shoulda coulda didn't.

    Other than all of the above - looking forward to hitting the road and actually camping in it - like was always intended!!!
     
    David H and Barry like this.
  14. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,818
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    That is great news.

    Often wondered how it all turned out.
    Looks like you proved it wasnt you or just in your head.

    Something obviously want astray in the machining process

    Great to hear you have had a successful crack at welding
     
    Chidori likes this.
  15. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    I really enjoy welding - but it's tough work!
    I was having to remove the sliding door - to avoid sparks going inside the bus - then lucky for me i have a jalousie window - which makes it easy to remove to work on the sill. Cutting and fitting a new piece of metal takes quite a long time (for me anyway). thankfully since owning the bus - i've collected almost every tool you would need to do the job. My fave is the air powered die grinder with sanding discs!

    I'm sure it was the machining process... however the mechanic thinks everything was measured many many times. He believes there was a crack in the case - but since the case had no oil pressure loss previously - it could only have been the machining that uncovered a crack.

    I did get to see the lifters and various other bits when the engine was taken apart... it was well past it's expiry date and defnitely due for a rebuild!

    It's got lots of get up and go (once it gets going) and EASILY keeps up with other cars on the freeway and EASILY overtakes them where necessary. I'm pretty sure people look at the kombi passing them and they're like WHAT??! :p
     
    David H, melissa, cbus and 2 others like this.
  16. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,517
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Not my idea of fun. I am a crap welder at the best of times. Last week welded a patch into the battery tray. Bit slack with mask etc so ended up with weld burn face and sore eyes! Not just a crap welder but a dill to boot. Tray patched and coat of POR 15.
     
    Chidori likes this.
  17. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,940
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Smart bastard :rolleyes:
    Rust converter , epoxy primer, and sika might be safer for some people:p
     
    Chidori and MAP77 like this.
  18. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,138
    Location:
    newcastle
    One of those new weld masks needed Alpal;). Bit of a tough area..head in engine bay welding battery tray:p.
    Glad it was you & not me;).
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  19. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,517
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Have a mask. As I said. "bit of a dill". But I'll go with the tough area..head in engine bay story.
     
    cbus and Chidori like this.
  20. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Battery tray is on my list unfortunately. Unfortunately welding is the only option. Again probably should have done it with the engine out.
    What I did do when the engine out was restore the petrol tank and put in a new sender. Unfortunately the gauge no longer shows full when tank is full. Can this be adjusted at the gauge end on the dash? Or is it a cut a hole and adjust on the sender only job?
     

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