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Horn contact woes

Discussion in 'Fuel System & Electrics' started by Ignats, May 19, 2018.

  1. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    Hi Everyone,
    Needing some info on 76 bus correct horn contact
    Removed a after market steering wheel and boss to replace with original wheel while I was fitting my new ignition switch the after market wheel and horn button was operating fine.
    Fitted original wheel and horn sounds constantly as key is turned on.
    It is my belief the horn contact,cancel ring is the wrong one as the after market setup seems to be isolated from the column hence it only can earth when horn button is depressed.
    Have included some pictures to help explain the situation
    The earth wire you see in pictures coming up the column is one I fitted just in case I required it but I think it must be the contact on the under side of the steering wheel that is wrong.
    So can anyone help as to where I can get the one required ,or am I just completely wrong really don’t want to put button on dash or refit after market wheel.
    The first 3 pictures are the original wheel and next 2 the after market setup
    Cheers Ignats
     

    Attached Files:

  2. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,385
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    If your new horn indicator cancellation ring has 2 contacts one inner and one outer and the horn continnually sounds then swap the lead to the other connector - if on outer then swap to inner ...... had same issue with my Type3 aftermarket wheel when I bought a cancellation ring for it and chose the wrong connector.
     
  3. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    No the problem is the original wheel I want to fit seems to have the wrong contact,cancel ring see pics
    What I think I need is a contact that is similar to what the after market setup is
    Sorry it’s all bit hard to explain
    Can anyone tell me if what’s in the pics is the correct set up is what I m getting at
     
  4. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    There should be no circuit between the contact ring and the centre of the spline. Check it with a meter or continuity tester. If there is, the silver ring with the 3 screws in it (under the horn pushbutton) is shorting to the wheel itself. Should only happen if you press the button.

    Hope that helps.

    Adrian
     
  5. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    You’re spot on
    But the underside of wheel is what is the problem the brass contact touches the wheel so as soon as you put it on you have earth horn blows
    I’m trying to find out what the correct underside contact looks like and where do I get one
    Cheers Ignats
     
  6. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    Ok, Just doing a sanity check here as it has been a while since I played with a faulty one. Anyone else please feel free to pull me up if I am going wrong.

    First, I don't think there is anything wrong with the brass contact on the wheel or the column. Maybe a little cleaner than most I have seen.

    The wire that goes down the centre of the column connects across the rubber universal at the bottom of the column to joint it to the steering box. It is only an earth. The brass strip contact in the column is the power feed from the horn as it switches the "negative side" of the horn to make the circuit. Therefore there should be no electrical contact between the silver ring with the 3 screws and the brass ring or the centre of the internal spline with the horn contact not pressed. The 3 screws I think I remember have plastic washers to insulate them from the silver ring. The cable running down the centre of the column should connect to the silver ring providing the path to earth down the column.

    In this case though you might have a short in the wheel itself as there shouldn't be a connection between the centre spline and the brass ring. As an experiment remove the 3 screws and brass ring and see if that makes a difference. You might have a screw making contact with the back of the brass ring or the frame of the wheel.

    Adrian
     
  7. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    That’s it I’ve been write all along I have no brass ring on under side like the after market one in my pics
    Can anyone tell me where I can get this
    Cheers Ignats
     
  8. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,919
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It looks like you have the wrong contact ring. They are cheap.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    Yes
    That’s what I wanted to know
    Thanks all concerned it’s not the easiest thing to try and explain
    Any one know who can supply?
    Cheers Ignats
     
  10. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,919
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Try Vintage Vee Dub Supplies. Just phone them. They are a very common part to wear out and fit many VWs and Porsches. You can probably even buy them from a VW or a Porsche dealer.
     
  11. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    842
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    I got mine (also for a 76) from VW Heritage UK.
     
  12. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    Damn, missed the brass ring is missing in the pic. Damn phone pics. Now at home and it is obvious.


    This is a pic of both early and later (thicker rim and spokes) post 1974 wheels (same spline) and yours isn't one of them. The indicator cancelling tab is fixed on yours and is part of the plastic and brass ring assembly on these. Does the spline fit the wheel properly as there is a difference between 73 and earlier wheels which may account for it? The spline is a different size on earlier columns and isn't interchangeable.

    If it is the right spline you may be able to remove the metal cancelling tab and just bolt a new assembly on.

    Adrian
     

    Attached Files:

    syncro likes this.
  13. Wayne murray

    Wayne murray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,791
    Location:
    Seven hills
    My 76 doesn't have a wire down the middle of the columno_O my 72 does,so does he need the wire down the center of his column.
     
  14. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,919
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It's not like you to get it wrong Adrian. (Just delete your post so you wont have to feel like a dipstick.):D
     
  15. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    If he has it it would be better to keep it. You need to make sure there is good conductivity between the the steering shaft and the steering box as depending on how the shaft is installed it may be insulated or have high resistance through the bearings/bushes holding it.

    Adrian
     
  16. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,669
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    And for Synco, I’ll leave it to remind myself that I and my memory (and eyes) are fallible.

    Adrian
     
    syncro likes this.
  17. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,385
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    I got one from Mick Motors up here in Brisbane - had connector unlike Phill's picture of bare lead, but it was small female so had to make up a fly small male to standard female.

    Will admit the pictures confused me showing an aftermarket wheel boss and contact ring then the original type of wheel :rolleyes:
     
  18. Ignats

    Ignats Member

    Messages:
    41
    Location:
    Merimbula
    Sorry for any confusion with the pics
    Yes it’s the right spline size I was aware of the 2 sizes
    And that earth wire is not standard in a 76 as was pointed out I thought I’d go to the trouble to put on in just in case it was needed
    Thanks again all part of the never ending learning curve
    Will chase up a new contact ring tomorrow
    Cheers Ignats
     
  19. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,385
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
  20. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,919
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Vintage Vee Dub will be at the Nationals if you are going.
     

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