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Missing jets in my Solex carbies?

Discussion in 'Fuel System & Electrics' started by Gordon D, May 7, 2018.

  1. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hi guys, this may be a stupid question but should there be a a copper 'jet' that extends into the chamber in my Solex carbies on my '73 Westy 1.7l Type 4 motor just below the butterfly valve??
    Looking with some colleagues today and comparing to a Solex from a similar engine (the 2l) there is a copper that is pressed into the side of the chamber and is missing in both of my carbies.
    Is this normal or have these carbies been butchered and could that explain why my engine is running not well at all?
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,750
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Well..........not normal but common

    It is the pump jet? - where the shot of fuel come from when you give it a squirt

    It is common for that piece to fall out and get minced through your motor

    yes - you should get it replaced
     
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  3. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yep - pretty sure it’s the pump jet. Seems odd that both are missing and mechanics didn’t notice when servicing recently. Can you just replace the jets or need new carb body?
     
  4. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    It is the outlet for the jet. The jet itself is in the housing so the same amount of fuel comes out, but isn’t actually injected into the airflow. As said very common to get knocked out and drawn through the engine. They are press fit. Volksdoctor might have some or be able to point you in the right direction.

    Adrian
     
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  5. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Would that affect the power for the motor though? Under load she is losing power but if I go up the rev range she recovers.
     
  6. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    Remember the accelerator jet only adds fuel when you press the accelerator and gives an increase in fuel for a few seconds. You might notice a flat spot with out them but it isn't going to be a huge difference. Losing power under load sounds more like a float level or possibly even a distributor issue.

    I don't know what history you have on that bus, but there are a lot of variables that can conspire to give the problem you are experiencing. Lets be realistic, unless the carbs and distributor have rebuilt by someone who has access to the original specs for the carbs fitted to that engine (not just pulled apart and a new kit fitted which some people think is all that is required), and the right variant and matching pair of carbs still fitted (they are actually 1 carb in two housings, not 2 separate carbs as the idle circuit is only in the left one and is connected via external piping between the 2 housings so different variant sides don't match properly), you are looking at 40 year old ancillary gear and expecting to be working at full potential. And that is if the engine is in good condition to begin with.

    If you have been through all the usual problem solving checks and everything adds up without fixing your problems it might pay to spend a few bucks and get the ancillaries checked and reconditioned back to what they should be. Volksdoctor is one I have used (1500king on here) in the past and I have been very impressed with the quality of work and attention to detail getting those 2 systems right.

    Adrian
     
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,921
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Back what Adrian posted.

    Do a full check.
    Usual to fix one item and ignore a bunch of other issues waiting in the wings.

    Especially if you still have a 1700.

    First checks for lack of power low but better high revs is points gap and timing. Advance functioning correctly.

    Suggest start with comp test, or better, a leak down test.
    Read plugs.
    Check points, dwell, both advance systems and for wear in shaft. Steady spark. Good voltage at coil. Leads. Etc.
    Then matching carbs and assess carbs . tune and balance. Fuel pressure. Fuel lines ( first priority)

    If you need a good tune or asessment I can recommend Sean at German engineering , Bribie.

    Having everything sorted properly makes a huge difference in most cases.
    Buying proper rebuilt parts from Andrew and bolting on then checking settings works out better and cheaper than having the average 'vw specialist' ?? having a punt.
    With the caveat that you have correctly established the areas that are problematic.
     
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  8. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Thanks guys - at the moment I am 98% sure I am going to do a full tear down and rebuild on the motor (as I am not sure when that was last done) and address all components as required as there is a bit of smoke on start, carb rebuild recommended from last service etc. etc.
     
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  9. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    If your engine swallowed the accelerator jets then expect them to be embedded into the piston of the cylinder they went into (they rarely go right through and you'll hear a knocking noise).
    I've seen them fowl inlet valves also (low comp on that cylinder), do a compression test.
    Not sure that's your problem though.
    Hope you get to the bottom of it.
    Rick
     
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  10. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The bottom is where I am heading Rick ... and I just tripped over your engine rebuild thread. Reading it thoroughly :)
     
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  11. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    if you need help just let me know. Adrian (1500king) is also an excellent go to but you might have to pm him as I don't think he is on here much.
     
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  12. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    14,738
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    That’s “Andrew “(1500king).......;)
     
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  13. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Sorry Andrew, too much wine tonight. Having trouble with the strata at my workshop.
     
  14. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Oh, probably all I can get ;)
    Seriously though, I rebuilt a couple of engines many decades ago with a mate of mine ... but they were Datsun 1200 motors. I know this will be a bit of a different challenge but was one of the reasons I took on this project. The first thing I want to find is those outlets. If it gets too hard, I will fail over to Plan B or C - rebuild professionally or get a "new" block.
     
  15. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,555
    Location:
    newcastle
    Datty 1200 not quite the same:p but you'll get new learnings rebuilding a Kombi motor;).
    Good Luck GordonD:eek:.
    Cheers
     
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  16. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Well, compression test results suggest that accelerator jets fuel delivery is not the issue ... but the fact they are missing could be.
    Results from the compression test and state of sparkplugs in below images:
    Cyl 1: 35PSI (Top Right)
    Cyl 2: 0 PSI (Didn't bother taking a shot of that one)
    Cyl 3: 65 PSI (Top Left)
    Cyl 4 95 PSI (Bottom Left)
    State of plugs indicates that Cyl 2 is really not well and Cyl 3 has compression but very oily

    Time to go deeper :)
     

    Attached Files:

  17. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,555
    Location:
    newcastle
    Those compressions are way under spec. No wonder it's running poor:(. Looks like you get your rebuild wish. For barrels, pistons etc Mahle brand is the only way to go;). www.tooleyimports.com.au/
    BTW...I choose 4...bottom left for best.
    So you've got a one cylinder Kombi. Boy are you going to be impressed when it's got 4 cylinders:D.
    My bet is you'll find those missing jets at the valve area in cylinder 1 & 2 or embedded in the piston to a greater or lesser degree:eek:.
    Cheers & good luck.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2018
    Gordon D likes this.
  18. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    :D Absolutely - if I could just clone #4 three times, it would be a massive improvement ... but am pretty sure we can do better than that :p
    Yep, will be diving in with camera in hand to document that if it is the case :confused:;)
     
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  19. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,705
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    I am wondering whether you did the compression test quite right. (throttle full open and 5 or six firings on each cylinder). With those results it shouldn’t really be running at all. Regardless it isn't healthy as is borne up by the spark plugs. Compression on a good standard motor is more like 110 to 130 with 5 psi between them.

    Good luck

    Adrian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 13, 2018
  20. Gordon D

    Gordon D Active Member

    Messages:
    271
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Not sure about the throttle bit ... didn't know you had to do that, thought you just turned the motor over ... but it was a warmed motor and 10 turnings per cylinder.
     

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