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Pulling heads off for a visual? or a costly waste of time

Discussion in 'Engine & Transmission' started by Ian and Shelley, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,814
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Either recessed or likely have been recut previously.
    Some oil getting past oil rings.
    Either worn or gunged up.
     
  2. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Hello.....got 1,2 cylinder head off...

    Cylinder 1 has some sort of leak or gases escaping, potential causes for this?
    The head was easier to remove and bolts didn't seem as tight as the other head...
    Valves all look to be seated nice and high and nothing too obvious as wear..

    All thoughts welcomed
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Sure it’s not 2?
    #2 was 90 PSI
    #1 was 100?

    one of 3 things
    A - heads not tightened down properly
    B - barrel not lapped in properly. Head mating surface not flat
    C - head studs pulling out
     
    David H likes this.
  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,814
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Number 1 looks like it has had a valve or something thrashing around inside it in a previous life.
    Leak from head could have been loose head nuts?
    2 different sets of heads so along with new seats you should have them cc'd to ensure volumes same.
    Likely some new valves.?
     
  5. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Ok had a better look at the heads. your numbers are right.

    weird
     
  6. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thanks for all the advice..

    From what you can all see are the heads in a good enough condition to service or have they done their time and we now need new?

    Especially as valve damage in No1 and valve reseating required at least in No3 if not others as well ..
     
  7. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Don’t expect new heads to not require work.

    I would suggest your machinist to be the decider
     
  8. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian,

    To help make the decision, I'd take a wire brush to them and then check for cracks in the combustion chambers. If there's no cracks then you've still got mismatched heads (which is okay as long as the combustion chambers are the same size).

    Also measure the diameter of the valves to make sure they are the same...off the top of my head I think there are 37.5mm (2 litre fuel injection), 39.3mm (1.7 litre) and 41mm (1.8 litre) inlets and 33mm and 34mm exhausts.

    Then it'd depend how many new seats, valve guides and valves you want to put in. Probably get charged $80 per seat, valve guides are about $20 plus labour ... and valves can be $15 to $50 or so each depending on which ones you need (plus labour unless you disassemble and assemble them yourself).

    Then you'd have to find someone who you trust to put seats in properly that won't fall out with the sort of heat VW heads get.

    When my 1.8 litre had sunken valves I just went for a pair of AMC heads for around $1,600 - I think mine were listed as 2 litre heads with 41mm intake valves (which may be a 2 litre carby head) because there weren't any '1800' heads around.

    Some people buy these and then regrind the valve seats to the same specs as VW original - but mine are doing the job fine straight out of the box


    Edit --- here's an option if you can't find 41mm valves
    https://www.mickmotors.com.au/produ...8-2l-wvalves-oval-ports-33mm-x-39mm-9142.aspx

    Patrick
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    Aspudis, David H, Barry and 2 others like this.
  9. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thankyou....

    Does anyone recommend a trusted cylinder head recon shop on the central coast?

    While assesing rebuild costs here on the coast.....

    are these new heads from heritageparts on this link the correct size etc....Cylinder Head 1800-2000cc 39.3 x 33mm no EGR Hole

    Complete...https://www.heritagepartscentre.com...000cc-39-3-x-33mm-with-egr-hole-complete.html

    Used these guys for parts before amd always been impressed..juat having to confirm freight to decide on purchase..

    Thanks all
     
  10. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    not on the Central Coast - Ashfield Sydney

    have used them several times with happy results

    Unlimited Head Jobs Cylinder Reconditioning
    302 Parramatta Rd, Ashfield
    9716 6362
     
  11. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian,

    I see you wrote 'no EGR' but gave a link to one with an EGR hole...you probably want the ones without the EGR hole (mentioned in the link you gave).

    They're not quite the 41mm x 34mm valve heads that came with the 1.8 litre but would work fine.

    Patrick
     
  12. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thank you... sorry about wromg link...i will go and measure whats currently in motor...
     
  13. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
  14. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thanks they also have same heads without egr valve...i think i popped the wrong link on here
     
  15. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Confused now...do i need EGR dont think i have egr on the motor.?
     
  16. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian,

    I don't think you have EGR - your existing heads will tell the story.
    Look near the intake on the 3rd pic in the link you provided.

    Patrick
     
  17. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    We have a real mix of valves sizes...

    Cylinders 1 & 2 - 38mm and 33 mm

    Cylinders 3 - 43mm and 33mm (head with rececesed valve maybe previous repair)

    Cylinder 4 - 41mm and 33 mm


    Thinking a new matching set could be best option here...
     
    Barry likes this.
  18. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    hah ha ......... good thing you pulled the heads off
     
  19. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Hi again

    I have got round to pulling the motor apart, and decided to make the full investment..

    I have ordered new heads and new pistons and new barrels to fit..

    Would like to confirm...when installing new heads, new barrels and pistons to the motor do I need to measure deck height etc t confirm compression ratio and add shims if required ???

    Or should new pistons, new heads and new barrels be a simple bolt on job and just check a clearances

    Did I use any gasket sealant ?

    Thanks

    Ian
     
  20. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,852
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    yes - you should measure deck height and cc the heads.

    along with CR deck height is important for “squish”

    should be 1mm to 2 mm from memory.

    ideally you want a pipette (sp??) for the heads.

    whilst you are not building a hi po monster you want to make sure there are no dramatic discrepancies that end up with a CR of 6 or 12

    have a read of some of the Aircooled.Net tech articles

    https://www.aircooled.net/category/vw-engine-how-to/
     
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