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Pulling heads off for a visual? or a costly waste of time

Discussion in 'Engine & Transmission' started by Ian and Shelley, Apr 28, 2020.

  1. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Hi again...

    What's this sensor thing for near to where I snapped my engine?

    It's on the gearbox side of the motor...

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    681
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian ... I've never seen one - I assume, though, that's it senses the flywheel position - is it connected to anything? Patrick
     
  3. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    The cable runs to a socket which connects into the main wiring loom....and I have no idea where it goes next?
     
  4. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    With motor out... AGAIN...

    I am checking everything as I had difficulty aligning the clutch...

    Can some one confirm that the clutch disc centre boss has the longer nose pointing towards the gear box..

    Photo attached is of removed clutch and clearly shows the boss pointing away from flywheel.

    I ask because I have tested clutch disc onto gearbox shaft and it does not run over the shaft if pointier boss is facing gearbox....ONLY fits if nose is facing flywheel ( which is opposite to how it came out) I
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    And to add confusion..
    Haynes manual says longer centre boss to flywheel...but had a diagram showing longer boss pointing away from flywheel..

    Tha ks
     

    Attached Files:

  6. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    681
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian, yeah, I doubt you'll ever find someone that has a reader to plug into that socket - so don't worry about it.

    with the clutch - did you use a clutch aligning tool...once you are sure you've got it aligned, it's one less thing to doubt when you can't get the engine back in (they just don't want to go). I usually check the distance from the gearbox to the engine is the same all the way around by tilting the engine - when I'm confident then I put in a couple of longer bolts and 'screw' it in - and it just glides in (compared to the amount of effort I put in trying to push it in)

    here's a thread off the samba
    https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=340233

    Patrick
     
    Grantus likes this.
  7. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Hi ...

    Yep I had a clutch alignment tool, and have the boss pointing out away from flywheel as per Samba .

    Whats odd is that the disc doesn't fit unless put on reverse.....I have been trying this evening with disc only and when boss is out pointing to clutch it won't fit, boss to flywheel and glides on easily. .(which is wrong way round)

    It does not to fit correct way round but fits in reverse .? Very confused..or have I got it all wrong?
     
  8. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,354
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    That sensor is about the ignition for the old rpm, timing and diagnostic centre for the old VW tune up machine.

    I can read this stuff in a t4 engine and I'm thinking sorting out ignition stuff for timing for future efi stuff on a new engjne I'm about to build from an engine I bought from @cbus
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  9. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    681
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi Ian - so are you saying it won't go back in the way it came out - being the right way?

    are the ends of the splines in the friction plate burred perhaps?

    Patrick
     
  10. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Yes...
    I have tested the clutch disc and found the disc only slides over the gearbox shaft in ONE direction.
    When the Nose of the clutch disc facing OUT towards the Gearbox ( I believe this is correct way to fit ) it WILL NOT slide over shaft
    It will only side over shaft when reversed..ie nose of boss facing towards the Flywheel


    I will check for Burrs and rough edges etc
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  11. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,887
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    Yes, check for damage as I am sure it is not tapered or has a blocking tab etc on it. In fact I have just checked with one in the yard and it goes both ways without issue.

    Adrian
     
    Ian and Shelley likes this.
  12. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thank you
     
  13. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,421
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    The clutch plate has the dampener spring side inside the pressure plate, this goes for every vehicle. If you put it in back to front, the bits that hold the springs in place hit the flywheel bolts on vehicles with multiple bolts that hold the flywheel on and clatter when the clutch is disengaged. Because the VW flywheel has a centre bolt that holds it on, this is not so much of a problem, but if the spline does not slide all the way through the clutch plate it will tear the centre out if yo attempt to force it through by using bolts to pull the gearbox into place.
    Don't forget the finer full of wheel bearing grease in the needle roller that is in the centre of the flywheel retaining bolt, I've had more than one case of the the needle bearing collapsing due to lack of lubrication and tearing the end of the input shaft up till it ends up welded to a number of the needle rollers. The only way to get the gearbox out then is to drag that needle roller bearing cage out of the centre nut .... not an easy job and also both the centre nut and needle roller bearing needs to be replace along with the input shaft, a gearbox rebuild type job.
    The fly wheel position sensor has already been explain, you can use it for an impulse type tacho if you want to fit one, but not really worth the effort in my book.

    T1 Terry
     
    cbus likes this.
  14. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Thanks all.


    Finally got the clutch disc to fit..
    It appears the splines on the inner ring were not properly or fully grooved out..

    Took a small file to the each of the grooves and ensured each groove was fully open and in it went...both way round ...wrong way and correct way...it fits .

    Poor manufacturing I guess...
    LUK clutch...more like **** clutch
     
  15. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,974
    Location:
    newcastle
    Where'd you get it from?
    Bit of a sh*t thing when the 'new' stuff leads to breakage like you've had.
    Tooleys have good gear.
    Hope it now goes back together well after the weld:).
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2020
  16. Ian and Shelley

    Ian and Shelley Active Member

    Messages:
    294
    Location:
    Umina Beach
    Happy days ....What an adventure...

    Block was welded up last weekend.
    I got the engine installed on Thursday and today have it running to set timing and dwell angle etc.etc....all seems ok so far, clutch is smooth to engage..plan to have a test drive tomorrow...

    Thanks again for all advice...
     

    Attached Files:

    David H, Wayne murray, cbus and 3 others like this.
  17. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,993
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Well done! :)

    Enjoy the ride....... ;)
     
  18. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,661
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Brilliant!!!
    How long did it take you to wipe the smile off your face.

    Hope you grabbed yourself a bevy and just sat there looking at with a smirk on ya face
    “ya didn’t beat me ya bastard!”
     
    Jethro likes this.
  19. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,558
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Sorry, but that's shagged. It's in full rebuild territory.
     
  20. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,558
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Thats actually the fully open, hot running position. It's a shame the rest of the thermostat assy is missing. Contributes to accelerated engine wear, cracked heads, poor heaters, poor fuel economy when it's not there.
     

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