Restoration Plan - 76 Bay - comments welcome!

Discussion in 'Resto Corner' started by DanSA, May 20, 2014.

  1. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Hi All.

    Excuse the ramble, bit of history first to set the scene… :rolleyes:

    We have had Percy just over a year now and he has provided lots of good experiences. We have travelled, camped and learnt many things and know him pretty well I think now. He’s an original 1976 Bay Window 2L EFI manual with a Sopru fit out in Martini Olive. He’s a ‘doer’ rather than a showpiece, and we appreciate he will never be worth as much as a Split or Lowlight.

    Mechanically, all is pretty good. The engine is going strong, albeit with a minor oil leak on the case and pushrod tubes, and the gearbox, suspension and brakes all are OK for its age. No issues with sitting on 110kph on the freeway, subject to crosswinds and how brave I’m feeling :cool:
    Inside the camper fit out is great, the new fridge and solar system means we can go off grid indefinitely, and the sink, water, gas, cupboards and bed etc. are all working well.. The pop top is useable, the canvas has a few small holes in and the scissor lift could use a few new bushed but works well.

    The body however is showing its age. Original paint is wearing and original seals are getting brittle. The chassis rails and floor underside have been fishoiled but do have minor surface rust. With a really heavy downpour, he does leak a bit, around the sliding door and front windscreen. Fortunately he spends 99% of the time cosy and dry in the enclosed carport, so rust spread is hopefully slowed. The wind roars thru a fair bit on the freeway (good in summer, not so good in winter) mainly due to the permanently open louvered qtr. windows of the Sopru, but also due to worn seals etc.

    See Members Ride for more on Percy http://forums.kombiclub.com/showthread.php?44942-Introducing-Percy-76-Bay-Sopru-Camper-Adelaide

    At this stage the plan is to continue to use it as intended whilst the kids are still interested to go travelling. As a result, there is not a lot of point in redoing it to a concourse level only for it to be subjected to the kids, dogs and dirt roads etc. I would however love to get it back to its original condition in a fit for purpose approach, but with new paint, panels, and seals etc.. As with most things in life money is an issue so I am trying to come up with the best plan to ensure a good result with things not getting out of control, and most importantly – finishing it so it can be used and appreciated again. J

    …. End of ramble, now onto the point of the post…


    So, what I am after from the wealth of knowledge that is Kombi Club, is this – comments on my plan and constructive criticism. Particularly with things I may have missed or not given enough attention.

    In a nutshell the idea is to strip it down with the lad, get the body to the professionals for panels & paint, and then home for re-fitting. Whilst the paint is being done, I intend to freshen up the drivetrain, but no major overhauls unless obviously required. (Hoses, bushes, filters etc)
    Please note I do not have the skills, tool s or time to do the panel and paint side of it, but am happy with mechanicals, carpentry, interior and hard work. Fortunately there is a really good panel shop about 800m down the road :) (Adelaide Hills Panel Works)

    Here goes:

    Pre planning-

    · Set a budget to aim to. (Need to get this past SWMBO first)

    · Set a timeline. (We want to use it as much as possible, no use it sitting there on bricks, no matter how shiny the paint is..)

    · Get quotes for sandblasting, welding, new panels as required and painting

    · Cost in all the hidden bits that get overlooked – seals, grommets, bushes, bolts, linkages, hoses etc.

    · Put it on Historic rego prior to works commencing


    Resto project plan-

    · Photograph and video as much as possible and make a scrapbook for reference later on. Note strip down sequence for reassembly later on and any other relevant details.

    · Do lots of research and speak to others that have been there done that and have the scars to prove it (that’s where you lot come in)

    · Strip down interior, remove cupboards and rebuild as required using old ones as templates.

    · Remove Pop-top and commence rebuild of frame, new canvas and fix up fiberglass prior to repainting. (scream at amount of rust hiding under pop-top)

    · Remove door trims, windows and glass.

    · Remove Dash, and disconnect relevant electrics.

    · Make decision to remove engine & gearbox or not now

    · Transport to panel shop for blasting

    · Panel work

    · Paint

    · Refit engine & gearbox if removed prior.

    · Replace all fuel lines and breathers.

    · Refit windows with new seals

    · Refit doors with new seals

    · Refit Pop-top

    · Dynamat doors, floor and inside cupboards etc.

    · Refit services & pipework (gas, water etc)

    · Refit cupboards and bed, front seats

    · Replace any old wiring and ensure all earth leads are in good repair and working well

    · Test

    · Final things and shakedown run

    · Celebrate with the wife, assuming not divorced by this point.

    · Go to Tassy for a well earning holiday and enjoy it.

    So, comments please. I will update the plan with anything I have missed/could do better.
    Dan

    PS: Sorry for the really long post, hope you're still awake!
     
  2. lakepipes

    lakepipes Member

    Messages:
    144
    Location:
    victoria
    you forgot "win Tattslotto" :)
     
    Micky O and ruby6689 like this.
  3. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Doh!
    Thanks mate :)
     
  4. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I will help you with the into paint costs.
    If you search for my thread (1966 Evie)
    -blasting inside/outside/under = $2300
    Following are estimates. Halfway through rust and is looking accurate (I started with a pretty good bus too).
    Rust work 10-13k
    Bodywork. Beating and full fillers 6-10k
    Paint (just fine primer and colour) 2.5-3.5k

    Upholstery. Covering and pads seats only 3.5 - 5k.
    If you want door cards and headliner make that 10-15k.

    Engine
    Who knows. If yours is good maybe 2-5k and upgrades to engine and running gear.
    If you want all new 5-20k.

    This is for a non show quality but a good job.
    Less for every item you do yourself.

    I have taken it on. But I don't think I ever will again unless I either get rich or have lots of spare time. Would save my money up and buy my dream bus.

    But in saying that. There are a huge amount of folks on here doing a brilliant job for much much less. Factor in the big money then back plan to work out how you can afford to do your bus within your budget.

    The book ' how to restore your vw bus' ( or similar wording) is a very good reference source. Definitely worth buying before you start.
     
  5. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Location:
    Brisbane
    By the way I hope I didn't scare you off.......
     
  6. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    No Brad, all good thanks :)

    I have ordered the book you mentioned, so have lots of reading to do. Im also going over to the panel shop to get some indicative pricing. I need to be careful not to over commit, as at the end of the day its never going to be worth what a Splitty would fetch. Having said that we are in for the long haul and plan to use it as intended..

    Have been following your build thread, looking good, you're almost at the fun bit - paint and refit :)
     
  7. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It will eventually be worth what a split is now. And there are a lot of benefits in driving a bay.
    But there are as many hidden bits to be aware of as far as rust are concerned.
    Try to find a good person down your way who knows VW's as they will be aware from looking at the outside of the sills what the insides might look like.

    To give you an idea, my long side is good enough to panel beat but there is a thick layer of crud through the sill that cannot be gotten out despite trying a few methods. I am opting now to cut the hole side off and replace to expose the sill and save on the panel beating. Just one of those unforeseen items.

    Definitely worth doing the long run though.
     
  8. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Just reviving this thread to see if there is any more recent feedback.

    We have been continuing to use Percy, and he is going well, but I'm mindful that the cosmetic rust patches, from damage prior to our ownership, will need attention soon.

    Question is, am I better off:

    1. Get the affected panels fixed up (new front panel, repairs to side door and rear wheel arch), but this would leave him with a mix of new/old paint, and would be a mess i think. o_O
    2. Sell as is - an honest bus with original paint and fit out, together with great camping set up. Kids are getting older and its not getting used as much, plus I have a unhealthy urge to get a Citroen DS :confused:
    3. Go for the long haul, strip, fix any rust , repaint, refit and hold onto? I imagine I wouldn't get my money back on any work we did for a while at least, plus it would be out of action i imagine for 12 months.:(

    Any thoughts?

    Dan
     
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,105
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Think you are right that a full strip and fix all properly will usualy mean off the road for a while.
    A year is probably a good average point.
    Cost will also likely be in bigger numbers as Brad indicated.

    It would be good to attend to shrunken seals and leaks to minimise rate of cancer spread and greater costs later.

    Sounds like it is fairly safe and functional ar present.
    You can pick away at small jobs and improve it.
    Certainly biting the bullet can be a can of worms.

    My suggestion would be look at the option of fixing items that need attention.

    Ie pull all window seals and fix what you find.
    Then onto lower sills and doors etc as a separate job.
    A faded colour match would be good enough in the mean time given its not yet a show pony
    ( too many around anyway :) )

    Have a chat with the panel shop and get their advice and some ballpark costs.

    I think done in parts gives more control and keeps it in service.

    Only an option but worrh crunching the numbers and probably less stressful.
    Doing it this way has advantages and disadvantages.

    If the panel shop does mainly insurance work this approach may suit them better.

    Make a careful list of known areas that need repair.
    An inspection camera is good for checking inside cavities.

    Beeing only 800m down the road is good as you may save a little removing and refitting trim and windows.

    Once again.
    Have a chat to the panel shop and explore what suits them and you.

    Good luck.

    Happy to check good quality photos if it helps

    I would ad that , yes, dont expect to get your money back in short or medium term if going the whole hog.
    ( generalisation)

    A DS is an unhealthy obsession but understandable . not a bad option :)
     
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  10. Aspro

    Aspro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,273
    Location:
    Stuck in the UK
    If it was me I'd keep it as simple as possible. Running restoration every time.
    Once you strip everything back to attack you're screwed. Only one direction to go from there and no turning back.
    I'd isolate areas that need attention and repair those areas one at a time. Cut, weld and blend some paint in.
    Keep it on the road as much as possible. You never know what tomorrow might bring and there's nothing worse then having a Kombi stripped back in 20 boxes spread all over your garage floor.
    Once everything is done and you still want your expensive paint job it will make it much easier.
    Good luck whichever way you chose to head. :)
     
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  11. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Wise word there Aspro, many thanks, I see your point..
     
    Aspro likes this.
  12. Happy_Camper

    Happy_Camper Active Member

    Messages:
    346
    Location:
    Coffs Harbour
    I've just completed a full resto on my Kombi, if you're smart about it there are plenty of ways for saving money, for example finding a good honest reliable VW mechanic who won't rip you off, I got done once and so put the question out and found a great mechanic. Do as much work as possible yourself, for example interior, I did everything in my interior saving around $10k as its a camper. If you're able to do grinding/striping paint yourself you'll also save a ton of cash. Make connection with body work/paint people if possible could save a whole lot of cash if you can find a professional who works from home for cash, but make sure their reputable, there are a whole heap of horro stories.
    That's just a few tips to do a resto for a lot cheaper.
    This is my resto http://forums.kombiclub.com/threads/my-76-resto.49662/
    The best way to save money is to be willing to get your hands dirty.

    Cheers
     
    cbus likes this.
  13. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    These are the 3 areas that need attention:

    Front panel:
    [​IMG]

    Sliding Door and Rear Arch:
    [​IMG]

    Other side rear arch:
    [​IMG]

    Roof has slight patina, but may be more lurking underneath?
    [​IMG]
     
    Blunderbus likes this.
  14. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,946
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Does not look too bad from the pics. I would go for the running resto and keep. You cannot sleep in a Citroen nice thou they are..
     
  15. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I don't even remember posting on here. That took a while to come back with photos :p
    If they are the worst of your troubles you are doing well. All seems like it is structurally intact and more resulting from damage then rust.
    Keep driving it and I think the following personally;
    1- Nose panel. I have seen a couple of great videos of people pushing this denting out by sliding a flat football in there and inflating it as required then panel beating it out.
    You could probably get it looking pretty good without touching the paint and leave it.
    2- Strip it bare and blend in. Yes there is surface rust but it doesn't look like it would be that deep. Hopefully and easy fix. Bottom corner of door looks pushed out a bit but might be able to manipulate it back in.
    3- Some patience with a chisel and hammer in behind should straighten that then blend in.
    4- Roof - Wax it. Looks nice in my opinion, The spot weld in the gutter look good. Anchor wax will work well here. I have a shiny bus but I still anchor waxed the gutter channel heavily. You cannot see it but it prevents water seeping under.

    Overall looks good. Weather or not your windows sills are clean like that is another story.
     
  16. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,226
    Location:
    Brisbane
    BTW did not re-read the top post. Not sure if you have other issues. Just looked at the photos. (I should be working not Kombi Clubbing)
     
  17. Blunderbus

    Blunderbus Active Member

    Messages:
    512
    Location:
    St Helena, Melbourne .
    Your bus looks pretty much in the same condition as mine, no major rust or other issues just little problem area's here and there.
    As a few above suggested i am also doing a running resto by fixing what i need to get it on club plates then do a paint job later, mine is running good so really only a couple of small rust holes to address and go over the RWC items likes brakes, suspension etc.
     
  18. Wayne murray

    Wayne murray Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,011
    Location:
    Seven hills
    Car isn't that bad condition,I agree with above do some running repairs in between trips.Start hoarding spares for the big day you decide to do a complete resto. It also spreads the cost over a longer period of time.I normally go both feet first but I have a back up kombi to fall back on will I'm doing a kombi resto. If you do a full resto I would have engine and all out . Putting a time frame on a full resto doesn't always work for me as been mention,once you have started there is no turning back but also there is unexpected thinks that always turn up that delay and extends you resto,increase the cost as well.
    Best of luck with whichever way you go enjoy it like you are.:cool::)
     
  19. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,105
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Definate running repairs for my call.

    Small offside ding an easy repair.
    LHS rear avail as a repair panel
    Door probably need a half of a lower repair panel which is avail.
    All pretty cheap and easy fit.

    Front could be a pull or replace.
    Again, available and a bit bigger but not too bad if A pillars and lower join of front panel are sound.

    No comparison cost/ timewise/ anguish between these( plus anything likely under window rubbers) compared to sandblast and full resto.

    Chat to panel shop.
    Fix all then its ready for a full exterior paint later ( with some blocking and attn to seams) if you choose.
     
  20. DanSA

    DanSA Active Member

    Messages:
    483
    Location:
    Adelaide Hills
    Thanks guys, great help.

    I will start to look for the best panels and cost it up. Any advice on best place to source them from for a 76 Bay? Imagine some panel suppliers may be better for different buses. Have been looking at Bus Stop and JK so far.

    Will also go and see the panel guy again and come up with a plan and report back. TBH I feel bad driving him around with the dented nose, it lets the whole bus down. I cant seem to find any photos of him from the front, this is why... Should have done it earlier, but i guess life gets in the way huh.

    Rest of the bus is pretty good as has been pointed out and its a great camper;

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

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