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T3 89 water boxer won't start at all HELP!!!!

Discussion in 'T3 & T4 Tech Help Clinic' started by Tin Bits, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. bevelhead

    bevelhead Member

    Messages:
    113
    Location:
    Cremorne TAS
    So what did you do to get it to start?
     
  2. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,196
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    There's not a petcock/isolating solenoid that's shut is there……? :oops:
    Watching with interest…...
    Cheers, Mark
     
  3. peter1000

    peter1000 Active Member

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    How old is the fuel in the tank,
    This new fuel has lots of additives that reduce the shelf life.
    Maybe a gas system issue with stale fuel ?
    Two Issues same result.
    Had it stop my bike and the wippersniper , not even a bang , new fuel hey problem solved. has not stoped my kombis though ?
    Long shot I know ? probably not old fuel but thought I would post my experience with it
    Regards peter
     
  4. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,863
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Peter,

    Killed my chainsaw, and they asked were you using old fuel? ( 2 stroke)...... I said it was mixed about 10 weeks ago, and that apparently was "very old" fuel...:eek:

    Fuel life these days seem much less than the old days of "super" & "standard".....
     
  5. peter1000

    peter1000 Active Member

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Yes if it had not happened to me I would not have believed it
    . Wippersniping put in fuel after running out pull pull pull not even a 1 bang,
    Same with the bike my nephew riding around for hours then ran out so put in fuel ran like it was T abbott speaking off his mind, sputter sputter bang.
     
  6. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,863
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Reminds me now to drain the tank on my laid up SC, since September last year, before I fire it up when I finish the work on it.....:confused:
     
  7. Tin Bits

    Tin Bits Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Morayfield Queensland
    Ok so I got it to start and idle for a good 3 mins but as soon as I touched the throttle it choked and will not start again. What I am thinking is oxygen sensor, as I am pretty sure, and I don't know much about injected motors will not run without the sensor. Any thoughts.
     
  8. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,640
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It will run OK without the oxygen sensor. Just disconnect it at the plug in the left side of the engine bay.
     
  9. Tin Bits

    Tin Bits Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Morayfield Queensland
    Ok then what would be the basic things that will stop a injected motor from running apart from the obvious?????????
    Spark good
    Fuel fresh and brand new tank
    Plenty of fuel pressure

    What would cause the motor to die as soon as I touch the excelerator, it will idle but as soon as air is introduced through the throttle body it stops
     
  10. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,640
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Throttle position switch.
     
  11. Gerry and Robyn

    Gerry and Robyn Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Ocean Grove Vic. Australia
    Hi Tin Bits,
    Same symptoms happened to me 16 months ago in my '89 Caravelle. Turned out to be the ECU.
     
  12. Tin Bits

    Tin Bits Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Morayfield Queensland
    Thanks for that can I ask where you got the new ECU and what it cost
     
  13. Mellow Yellow 74

    Mellow Yellow 74 Active Member

    Messages:
    846
    Location:
    Sydney
    You will struggle to find a new one but you can buy rebuilt ones from the US from Van Cafe, Go Westy, Bus Depot etc. They all have a core charge so you will have to pay return postage of your old one to get this refunded. Or you can sometimes find working used ones on ebay, Ben's Place or try a local vw wrecker.

    You might want to think about getting a rebuilt or used AFM as a spare when you order the ECU because they are also NLA (apologies for all the TLA's *).

    http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/page_590_750/ecu-electronic-control-unit-rebuilt.html

    http://www.gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3859&category_id=&category_parent_id=

    http://www.busdepot.com/130117

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VW-Volks...-Computer-025906022D-0261200284-/360533265796

    http://www.benplace.com/parts_sale1.htm

    * three letter acronym
     
  14. Gerry and Robyn

    Gerry and Robyn Active Member

    Messages:
    610
    Location:
    Ocean Grove Vic. Australia
    Hi Tin Bits,
    Had mine repaired at Logicar. $300. Unfortunately for you they are a Melbourne based company. Ph 1300 334 334.
    Gerry.
     
  15. Tin Bits

    Tin Bits Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Morayfield Queensland
    Ok here's an update on the t3, its at German engineering on Bribie Island and he has gone through every thing testing spark, fuel, pump, and every thing associated with combustion also did compression test all good around 155.
    I got a ECU from Phil ( thanks but didn't fix the problem ) and fitted it with no change.
    All wireing checked Sean is baffled and so am I he has tested every thing so this is a good one to solve.

    Ignition system tests good

    Fuel system tests good

    Spark great

    Timing spot on

    Coil good

    MAF good

    My patience RUNNING OUT

    Any more suggestions
     
  16. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,491
    Location:
    Gosford
    Have you checked all the relays in the box in the engine compartment, 1 runs the ECU but not sure which one.
     
  17. Syncro27

    Syncro27 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,373
    Location:
    Terrigal, NSW Central Coast
    So you have the two vital elements - fuel and spark yet no go.

    Just to help this forward - lets go back to the start - what happened when it stopped working?

    Was it driving along or parked up for a while?

    Do you have fuel coming out through that little pressure screw on top of the engine when it is slightly unscrewed?

    Even better you can check for fuel at the injectors? They can be pulled and you can turn over the engine allowing fuel to spray into a small container - just make sure the coil is not connected.

    Are the main earths connected?
     
  18. Dannyred

    Dannyred Member

    Messages:
    100
    Location:
    Ningi
    If it idles and everything tests good to me it would suggest that something isnt keeping up when in demand at higher rpm. How about faulty fuel pump?
     
  19. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,559
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Phills point worth checking . had that on another efi.

    the thing that gets me is that it has the fattest blue /yellow spark ive seen.
    spark is regular without any indication of misfire or tracking anywhere.
    all leads and plugs tested by removing plugs and inserting into individual leads and observing while cranking.
    dont believe that they are failing to fire under compression.
    in most instances there is no missfire or attempt to fire at all. zilch.
    minor smell of fuel indicating injectors possibly working but not excessive to suggest flooding.
    plugs not wet when pulled after start attempt??
    after overnight and on a couple of ocassions it has fired and run hapily at idle. dies immediatly throttle opened.

    have tried under a few different ways to fire it on aerostart but not even a misfire?? that with the known regular strong spark , good compression, has me baffled.

    didnt check valves but think mech has since checked them as ok.
    compression suggests they are ok ?

    previous running.
    was a miss on at least one cyl on start but ran well once under way
    was run for a week on lpg with no issues.
    then developed a flat [lean] ? condition where it would idle well but limped on throttle.
    my suspicion was low fuel as thats typical when tank runs out. tank was/is full so thats a no.
    Have checked LPG lines and filter no issues observed. Diaphram in mixer ok.
    full liquid to vapouriser. Havent pulled vapouriser.

    Had it idling on petrol without AFM. once lpg mixer added in line it immediately died.

    at this point we decided to isolate LPG [had tried to get it to run on lpg numerous times initialy to no avail]
    LPG removed from in line inlet manifold system and decision to sort the petrol side that was a known no go previously.

    Has full petrol pressure in line.
    injectors an unknown as far as i know but assume they have been checked fully since


    Again i cant see how it wont fire on aerostart if it has correct /strong spark and appears in order mechanicaly?

    obviously theres something but not obvious as yet.
     
  20. Syncro27

    Syncro27 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,373
    Location:
    Terrigal, NSW Central Coast
    Sounds like fuel or air cant get from the storage points to the injectors.

    Can you check the injectors are actually squirting?

    Is the plennum blocked anywhere?
     

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