T3 ej25 not starting

Discussion in 'T3 & T4 Tech Help Clinic' started by T3till, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. T3till

    T3till New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Bris
    Gents

    Was abt to take the bus out on a quick drive before parking it for the week.

    Fuel pump has been a bit noisy & sounding a bit worse for wear after turning on ignition (have just ordered a new one)

    First time it turned over but didn’t fire - second time, she wouldn’t even turn over

    Battery appears fine over 12 volts - but currently on charge

    Would a dodgy fuel pump inhibit the engine to even turn over or do we have another gremlin?

    Bus has EJ 2.5 conversion auto

    Cheers
     
  2. nils

    nils Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,351
    Location:
    newcastle
    fuel pump won't stop the engine from turning over, might have to start with your starter wiring if your battery is good.
    Otherwise next I would check your ignition switch
     
  3. Syncro27

    Syncro27 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,734
    Location:
    Terrigal, NSW Central Coast
    Does it turn over by hand?
     
  4. sunburntwilly

    sunburntwilly Member

    Messages:
    119
    Location:
    Melbourne
    The ej2.5 is harder to turn over then the 2.1wbx motor. With the auto you most likely have a conversion plate. So you will be running the vw starter motor. They have been known to fail on the subaru engine. You can buy a geared down starter motor to fit. Not 100% sure but I think it's the starter for the diesel motor. Luke from morrabin who does conversions fits these starters.
     
  5. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,666
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Agree, electrcal connections and straps first.
    If you need a starter then John at volks conversions has some geared ones or there's a guy in Brissy doing adapters to fit the suby starters.
     
  6. T3till

    T3till New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Location:
    Bris
    Thanks for the advice fellas - hoping it’s just an electrical gremlin
     
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,666
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Ditch Braided earth straps. ;)
     
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  8. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,910
    Location:
    newcastle
    I'm onto it Cbus. Thanks:). They're real old (re original) & we want to get to Bus Stop 2018;).
    Again we're into the anodic discussion & my bus seems to be one of the more gentle ones re this. No problems ever but this site makes me a bit nervous:oops:.
    Is it okay to double up new with good old braided? To be Irish & sure?
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,666
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    No. Not necessary.
    The problem isn't a lack of wire but seems to exhibit high resistance when a small amount of corrosion present.
    Easier to just replace with new.
    Braided are a bit rare now so its easier to replace with an insulated cable.
    There is probably varying quality , especially in connections.
    Check around till happy with options.
    Usualy ok unless exhibiting problems or badly corroded/frayed.
    Good cable battery to body then body to gearbox is usualy enough.
    Sometimes owners add one from battery - to a bolt on the motor fan housing but it shouldn't make any difference if the gearbox one is good.
    The cable from batt,+ to starter is thinner and longer so theoretically least able to carry heavy current but seems ok.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
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  10. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,875
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I'd go for ignition switch first. Fuel pump does not use the engine earth strap.

    Braided earth straps are the best. Much more flexible but are more expensive. Unless you have a reason, keep the original and add another. Insulated earth cable is not a good idea on a Kombi because of the way that the engine rocks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  11. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,395
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Claw washers top and bottom to tabs on earth straps are a good idea as well
     
  12. Wattie

    Wattie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    742
    Location:
    Mildura. Victoria. Australia.
    Its a auto? possible neutral switch failure, move (with foot on brake) the shift selector between park and neutral and couple of time while holding the ignition key in the start position, if the starter kicks in then its the switch, located hiding under the PRNDL cover.
     
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  13. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,395
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    "Bus has EJ 2.5 conversion auto"

    Good point Wattie

    My money is on this
     
  14. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,875
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    All electrical connections should have some type of "spring" washer to keep a constant pressure on the connection.
     
  15. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,395
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Agreed - just I have just found the claw type really bite into the metal to give a better connection
     
  16. Syncro27

    Syncro27 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,734
    Location:
    Terrigal, NSW Central Coast
    Totally agree Col.

    My old 6cyl suby donk was failing because of the shitty braided earth strap. Replaced it with a battery strap and it went from a total mess to a great engine again instantly.

    I will never use a braided strap again.
     
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  17. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,910
    Location:
    newcastle
    So to go again....is there any harm in 'doubling up' on a braided earth strap from battery, that gives no problems, with another insulated modern age cable just to be sure?
    "Good cable battery to body then body to gearbox is usually enough." My braided cable runs from battery to engine & is in excellent condition. Is that the same as running to body & then gearbox?
    Should I check to see if there's a gearbox earth cable?
    Thanks All
    Cheers
     
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  18. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,875
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Can anyone tell me what they think is wrong with braided earth straps, besides the cost?

    Doubling up with earths is fine.
     
  19. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,422
    Location:
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  20. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,666
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    There is absolutely no need to replace a braided earth cable if it is healthy and you have no electrical issues.

    But the fact that they have shown to be an issue shows the importance of establishing good connections from the base rather than chasing all over for magic solutions when sorting electrical problems.
    The same applies to removing and cleaning connections.

    The problem arises in cases as posted recently with hard starting or sudden electrical failure on starting attempts.
    Such has regularly been traced to a corroded earth strap.
    Often the strap is not frayed or noticeably otherwise compromised but it seems that even a mild amount of verdigris can affect function.

    The symptom was also common on XE falcons. The earth lead to motor was too light.
    Hard or no start on a hot motor being a common and well reconised fault.
    Adding a jumper lead for test fixed the issue.
    Replacing with a larger diameter lead solved the issue.
    Large current draw through a light lead created heat which in turn raises resistance to a point that insufficient power is available to starter motor.
    Cold starts were usualy ok but the additional heat from engine once run pushed it past its limits.

    I see no point in adding a second strap to a healthy or dodgy lead.
    Why keep the dodgy or sus one.
    Simply replace it.

    But there is no harm in adding a second earth strap either.
    Wouldn't bother going x2 on gearbox.
    Often people add a cable from bolt securing earth terminal battery - body to a sound point on engine.
    This may provide easily checked additional contact points but is no gain over a healthy earth strap to gearbox as the total amount of current flow is usualy still limited by a strap of same capacity from batt terminal to body..

    The choice of insulated cable over braided was primarily availability at the time.
    It did also exclude the demonstrated vulnerability if braided straps.

    I overcame the lack of flexibility by running a slightly longer cable that could be looped to give free movement and a unstrained attachment.

    A check on carrying carrying capacity is to check cable temperatures after prolonged starting.
    Resistance to high current flow creates heat.
    Hottest point/ cable will be the area copeing least.
    My bet is hottest points will be connections at terminals.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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