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T3 wont select any gears UPDATE: Now the shifter is super stiff

Discussion in 'T3 & T4 Tech Help Clinic' started by Slowbrick, Jan 28, 2021.

  1. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    I have bushing 8A in both positions. It is tan coloured with the little flutes in it. The shift rod looks ok but when I get home today and if it isnt raining I will take a look and maybe polish it with some autosol. Is a not so smooth shift shaft the only reason it should be pushing the grease out? Ive even packed the bushing with moly grease and when ive checked it again after stiffening up it has hardly anything left in the bush and its all inside the boots instead.

    The uni joint looks old and possibly original but it does move. Is it a possibility that if its worn it might be causing the rod to bind in the bush if the bush is new and tighter than the old one that may have been worn and allowed more movement?

    I think they are ok but I cant be sure. The problem seems to be contained mainly to the centre bushing as ive had the rear half disconnected and the shifter is still hard to move. Loosening the two bolts restores the easy to move shifter but as soon as I tighten them down it stiffens up again unless its packed with grease. I havent tried lanolin but the lithium spray didnt do much when I first tried it. This makes me wonder if there is something wrong with the clearances or something with the middle bushing housing, boots or the actual bush?

    Also yep its a 5 speed.

    Are you saying the actual rubber boot could be causing the binding and thats what I should be lubing or should I be replacing the moly with lanolin spray for the actual bush?
    I wish it was something that simple but this was just all recently refreshed and for some reason its binding and pushing out the grease! Very annoying!
     
  2. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,018
    Location:
    Gosford
    You cant use 8A in the 8 position without the rubber boots that the 8A uses. The 8 bush has provision to hold grease whereas the 8A does not and uses the boots for this purpose. Thats why I mentioned read the gowesty info I sent the link to. Either set it up like Gowesty suggest or get the correct bush. https://www.justkampers.com.au/vw-t...07-d-gear-linkage-bush-for-t25-1979-1992.html
     
  3. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    Leon's have fitted the boots so its now sitting inside the boots. Is it possible there is a difference between the mounting plates between the bushes? For some reason as soon as I tighten the plate down the rod begins binding. Loosening the plate causes the rod to move easier but tightening it down causes the binding to return. This is with the rear section removed to help isolate the location of the stiffness.

    Is it worth just ordering a new kit in the off chance the one I have is no good? Or should I source one of the bushings that dont use the boot and just run that?
     
  4. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,905
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    I would start by putting the correct bushes in the correct position
     
    Luckyphil likes this.
  5. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,018
    Location:
    Gosford
    Probably easier & cheaper to put the correct bus in the number 8 position and fit as per Grants pic. I posted a link to it above
     
  6. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,905
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    You could sell it and buy an automatic
    :p:D:p:D
     
    Wattie likes this.
  7. Syncro27

    Syncro27 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,605
    Location:
    Terrigal, NSW Central Coast

    Its a combination of the boot and bush the shaft runs through. However, you have to spray the lube into the boot - no need to replace the moly - just add the lanolin spray into the boot.
     
  8. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    Is there a reason why the delrin bush and boot combination doesnt work? Go westy sell a kit that claims its an upgrade over the non boot type bushing. It just seems strange that Leon's would fit parts they know dont work if thats the case. I dont have a problem reverting back to the non boot style bush if it works but I'm still confused as to why it works for a day or two and then all the grease gets pushed out and it no longer works. Im also not sure why the shaft binds as soon as the plate is tightened down as if something is not straight anymore.

    At this point im considering it! This is the strangest problem ive ever had with a manual ever.

    Ill give this a try when I put it back together.
    Im thinking about taking it all apart and giving it a good check over now that I'm at home. Im wondering if Ive missed something while working on it on the side of the road but the whole thing is very strange.
     
  9. nils

    nils Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,515
    Location:
    newcastle

    The ole' caravelle had a same problem shortly after rebuilding the shift rods. I changed the rubber grease out for light bushing grease and problem solved. The area seems very intolerant to the wrong lubrication.
    Funny because I swear the original was just lubricated by dirt and water. :D
     
    Syncro27 likes this.
  10. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    Update time!
    There has been a break in the rain and I decided to get under the van and have a look. Removing the outer bushing retainer revealed just what I expected, most of the grease has exited the bush and is pushed all into the boot causing the bush to have only a tiny amount left which was all hard and chalky im assuming from the excess heat of the friction.
    I took the two halves off and the bush and had a close look on the bench. What I noticed was that the bellows dont seem to fit inside the retainers very well. Pushing the two halves together always caused the bush to move to one side and it was next to impossible to get it to sit square between the two halves. This might explain why it would loosen up as soon as I backed out the bolts and bind when I tightened them as I can imagine the bush was probably loading to one side and bound the rod on one side instead of sliding evenly.
    It might also explain why it was fine when it left Leon's and why it would drive fine after regreasing but not after a day or two as I could imagine the bush would slowly move more to one side eventually binding the rod.

    I had a rummage through the parts box that came with the van and to my surprise I found a type 8 bush that doesnt use the boots. I placed it between the two halves on the bench and straight away it was obvious it was a much better fit. Pushing the two halves located the bush pretty true and it clamped down nice and straight. I loaded it up with moly lithium grease and autosoled the rod and refit.

    Immediately the shifter now moves back and forth with the same light effort it did before the failure in Brisbane. So it looks like either one of two things are happening here.

    1. The replacement parts, namely the boots, are a poor fit and have caused the issue all along since they were fitted.
    2. The bushing retainers in my van are incompatible with the boot style bush and dont allow the boots to seat fully when clamped down?

    Either way it looks like that part of the problem is resolved. Now I get to move onto rebuilding the detent rod mechanism in the shifter as it exploded in traffic after a very forceful and stressed 4th gear change in the middle of peak hour in Lambton. The spare tyre saved the clinch pin, spring and inner spring but the ball bearing is gone. The boot looks like is been gone for a long time as the spring is all caked with oil and dirt. Ahhh the pandoras box has definitely been opened!

    Atleast its driving again even if the gear shifter is sloppy now because of the broken detent rod.
     
    Syncro27, David H, oldman and 3 others like this.
  11. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,018
    Location:
    Gosford
    Great result. The correct parts as specified by VW always work best. :)
     
    oldman likes this.
  12. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    With that being said, what is the go with the boot style bushings? If I were to purchase them from Gowesty or Vancafe could I expect a similar result? Surely not everyone who fits them encounters the same problem?
    Its a frustrating experience as it greatly crippled the van for the entire trip back after paying nearly $700 for repair especially if they are the wrong parts. Is it possible the parts can work but this particular set is just not good quality. I didnt get the feeling Leon's were incompetent and there are threads here who endorse they do quality work.

    I do note Vancafe supply the soft non boot bush in their kit but they state its for a reduction in noise and vibration and not because they dont fit. Im glad it seems to be fixed but I'm still curious as to why the boot style bush doesnt work despite many people fitting them and seemingly not having any problems. Ahhh the trials of an old car with aftermarket parts hahaha.
     
  13. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,246
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I wonder if the Vancafe parts work better on a 4 speed and have not been tested on a 5 speed? 5 speeds are rare in the US.
     
  14. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,018
    Location:
    Gosford
    the bush at No8 is completely different on a 4 speed and you cant actually access it without removing the tank. Although a workaround does exist using a long dowel and a hose clamp. I have used it and works great :)
     
    syncro likes this.
  15. Dapom

    Dapom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    787
    Location:
    Brisbane
    On my project bus it’s been replaced with a 6” piece of garden hose zip tied in place. I found that gem when I dropped the tank lol it’s actually surprisingly good though!!
     
    melissa, Luckyphil and David H like this.
  16. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,018
    Location:
    Gosford
    Brickwerks actually have the correct bush for the 4 speed. They were NLA but are being made again.
     
    Dapom likes this.
  17. Dapom

    Dapom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    787
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Thanks for the info :) might have to order 2.....the one in my airpumper I made out of a soft drink bottle neck as I couldn’t get the part. However....again....it’s surprisingly good!!
     
  18. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    So it looks like its still shifting moderately ok with the exception of the massive play in the shifter due to the clinch bolt no longer being in the shifter. I'm still wanting to replace the components fitted by Leon's as ive been put off by this whole thing with mismatched parts. Im thinking about ordering the van cafe kit. Has anyone use this kit before? I will need to source different selector bushings as mine are the large type for the 5 speed but other than that it looks like it has everything I need and it seems well received on the samba.
    Manual Transmission Front & Rear Selector Shaft Kit, VC.SHIFTKITFRONTREAR, VC-SHIFTKITFRONTREAR, VC SHIFTKITFRONTREAR, VCSHIFTKITFRONTREAR (vancafe.com)
     
  19. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,246
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    I think that is for a 4 speed.
     
  20. Slowbrick

    Slowbrick Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Location:
    NSW
    The shifter repair kit looks like its for the 4 speed or are there differences in the selector rod/cup thing on the transmission itself as well?
     

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