Tips for cleaning engine fan

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Just wondering if anybody had tips on cleaning the engine fan on a type 4 engine?
    Without pulling the whole engine out, what would be the best way.
    Last time I tried to clean it I used degreaser - and of course no matter how careful I was, it got onto the fanbelt and it started slipping. Then I had to spend hours trying to get the degreaser off the fanbelt so it wouldn't slip!

    The fan is covered in gunk and what looks like caked on oil. I'm sure it's not sucking in as much air as it could.
     
  2. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    18,003
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    Never done it but maybe pull back engine bay seal and remove tin ware around the fan to get more access, fan belt not hard to remove and replace so take it off also (no doubt you've worked that out already) - taking it is a type 2 flat engine (some call pancake or type 4) then with some cloth and kerosene start to wipe each blade - to get deeper in if you may need a spatula of some sort that will fit between the blades and wrap the cloth over it. Not going to be fun but only way with engine in I can think of. Kerosene actually works very well with cleaning oil and grease grime. A paint brush (thin cutting in type) dipped in kero may also help to get into the narrow and curved blades. Even an old tootbrush can work wonders - stiffer the bristle the better or just go buy an el cheapo.

    Expect besides the oil it is also dirt mixed with it and "dried" a bit.
     
  3. desertkombi

    desertkombi New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Location:
    shepparton
    hi i've had a lot of sucess leaving my dirty parts out in the sun to warm up and then hit them with oven cleaner and leave for an hour, then hit with the hose flat out .. cheaper than degreaser .( does wonders to the back lawn)..
     
  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    one would also ask why it is so dirty. any bad oil leaks there?

    its not hard to unbolt the fan and remove it for cleaning.
     
  5. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Thanks guys.

    I ended up pulling out the fan. Was easy enough to do. But behind it ive found there's lots of old crusty oil in the shroud. So I'm part way through removing the shroud to clean it out. At least I'll be able to check the oil cooler and replace its seals finally.
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    nothing like gaining experience at pulling things apart :)
    worthwhile due to possible oil issue and ill bet that crud is blocking airflow thru your oil cooler. think you had issues with temps?

    ensure that you use good seals for the cooler and have a new gasket for the oil filler tube to case join as you will probably have to remove it to get shroud off.
    definately get the vit rubber bellows for dipstick tube as well and it doesnt hurt to zip tie the large end.
    check with Kai on the rubber parts.
    while exhaust is off use your stud remover to replace the studs in the muffler. makes for easier assembly. Some anti seize and copper nuts also a good idea but dont overtighten copper nuts as they strip easier than steel ones.

    If you dont have the tinware that has a heatshield between exhaust and engine tinware just rear of the fan then some turbo heatshield material is a good idea.

    a thorough degrease and rinse then a coat of POR 15 paint inside and out wouldnt hurt and will give a bit of bling for the effort.
    same paint will do for the fan.[just the face side ]
    dont use HCl on aluminium. POR 15 degreaser and a scourer should suffice for cleaning but if you want to be anal then hydroflouric acid [NOT HYDROCHLORIC]is used to prep Al. Be VERY careful with safety. and definately dont get it on skin or breath fumes.
     
    Surf77 likes this.
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    check how far oil crud has got thru system.
    seem to recall that you has a lot of oil around engine barrel fins as well.?

    was it on top [near plugs]as well as bottom of barrels?
    looking at possibility that crank seal may be leaking if you have oil going thru air cooling areas rather than the oil from leaking pushrod tubes being the only source?
    would expect significant hot oil smell if this was the case
    oil and crud on cooling fins is going to seriously affect cooling.

    Think you see the crank seal with fan off??
    look for fresh oil
    some real mechanics may be able to give better advice on this

    generaly tho. have a look for the source of the oil if possible. is it all from oil cooler seals? could be crank seal or dissy , oil pressure sender as well . also could be still leaking [bit of fresh wet oil around leak] or an old spill that has been sorted ?
     
  8. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Thanks cbus!
    I read that you're able to take the shroud off without dropping the exhaust or heater boxes... is it actually possible?
    I've got some photos that I've taken with the fan out... cant really tell where the leak is coming from - I couldn't see any fresh oil really. Only baked on sticky greasy stuff.
    The shroud is FULL of it, I was scraping out handfuls from the bottom of the shroud of old baked on greasy oil. I've ordered some more oil cooler seals, just in case that's what's leaking.
    I think it might be more to do with the dipstick boot (possibly non existent). I've seen some silicone around the dipstick tube - will have a better look on saturday when I can get out there.
    The cooling fin oil was almost definitely leaks from the push rod seals. There does appear to be a minor leak from higher up. I'll see what I can see with the shroud off - if i get that far.

    Yep, have overheating problems and I wouldn't be surprised if the oil covering the inside of the cooling shroud is heating up and then heating the air as it gets blown through. Would also explain the fumes when I use the heater!!
    If the oil has gone that far through the cooling shroud - it's possibly covering the oil cooler?? Will find out soon! :)
     
  9. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
  10. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    the Al cooling shroud can be taken off but you will need to drop the muffler and undo oil filler tube . Heater boxes stay. From memory, I think the alternator can stay? back 3 peices of tinware come off. as does coil and anything atached to shroud and a bunch of small screws and bolts.
    this also gives you easy acess to oil cooler to replace seals.
    ill check book.
    do you have a bently manual?
    the shroud or oil in it wont be getting overly hot due to air moving thru it but it wont help air flow and realy good chance that its blocked all the oil cooler fins.
    Damaged dipstick boot is definately an issue as it allows oil to be blown out and will result in obvious fresh oil under that side of engine and likely splattered over back of van after a trip. unlikely to be source of oil in shroud.
    Ill look for some info on removal as cant remember all details but definately its not a hard job but a bit of patience is needed to get at and refit some of the bolts.
    Just go slowly and dont stuff bolts by rounding the heads. Adopt good practices and have some quality tools to avoid creating additional work.
    wherever possible, replace bolts and screws with new ones when refitting . this means that you eventualy make working on engine much quicker and easier.

    fumes in heater are usualy from oil dripping on damaged heater boxes. I would expect that the source was leaking push rod tubes or rocker cover gasket.

    I would stick to doing the shroud job and any bits associated with it at this point.

    later you may like to drop exhaust again plus heater boxes [none of it hard] and clean heater boxes and do as much repair as possible
     
  11. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Thanks again Cbus.
    I have the bentley here, but I'm pretty sure it's assuming that you've pulled the whole engine out to get at the shroud.
    I've removed the rear 3 bits of tin so far. part way of removing the alternator - I believe that has to come out - or at least the tin surrounding it does.
    I only recently put in the exhaust - bit annoying if I have to take it out again, but I've come this far! :)

    Any thoughts from the photos?
     
  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    re the photos.
    bit wet there still . definately a pull it off job and check oil cooler.
    Big maybe , but if theres been a bit of oil from damaged dipstick boot and no foam engine seat i wonder if some oil was from there??
    Les may be able to give some better comments on photos but I cant see any problem with crank seal.
     
  13. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    crank seal appeared to be fine.
    However I must admit, I did attempt to undo that crank bolt when I thought it was holding the fan on.
    I only had a little socket on it, so I wouldn't have made much of a nudge on it... but I'm guessing I should probably check the torque on it to make sure I haven't undone it at all.
    I'm sure that's not a good one to come loose - or be loose.
     
  14. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Would that be known as 'hub to crankshaft' which should be 23ft lb or would it be the 'fan to hub' 14 ft lb (according to bentley) ?
     
  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    think you can go either way re dropping the alternator.

    off top of head and without a motor in front of me.

    foam seal part removed.
    3 sections tinware off.
    screws around alt front tinware off[theres one underneath as well]
    obviously fan belt and fan already off
    remove muffler
    remove oil filler tube[top already off and should be plugged with a rag to prevent stray bolts entering sump]
    remove coil and anything else bolted to shroud, at this point i cant remember if shroud came off complete or just the front section.
    time to check :)

    the bolt in the fan hub is not like the biggies at the rear and is 22 ft /lb
     
    Chidori likes this.
  16. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Awesome. Thanks mate. Looking forward to getting back out there and getting stuck in.
     
  17. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Spent 3
    hours yesterday in the scorching sun getting my legs burnt trying to get that POS alternator nut off from underneath!! I used every tool I had and a combination off tools and none would budge it!! The bottom half of the nut it rounded off now from using vice grips.
    Won't get a chance to go back out for another month as I'm having some surgery next week. Grrrrrr!!!!!!!
     
  18. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    So for anybody else doing this job hopefully your alternator but doesn't stick like mine. I spent 3 hours trying to get it off. My mate spent a few hours too. Until he decided to hacksaw it off! Got there in the end.
    I had to take the right side heater box off and loosen the left one to lower it. The oil filler stayed. Shroud is off now and the source of my overheating has become apparent.
    Trying to work out how to take the dipstick tube out so I can split the shroud. Any ideas?
     
  19. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    876
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
  20. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,671
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Buy a new oil cooler . dont half do the job by trying to clean it. Definately good that you have pulled it off.
    dont pull the dipstick tube. just undo all the screws on circumference and the case comes apart at an angle to allow tube to stay in one half.
    looks like a small hole in rear section near fan. repair that with some metal epoxy
    careful removing alt cooling hose. usualy brittle.
    looks like some oil may have been from crankcase breather/dissy/oil pressure sender area?
    carefuly clean that area so that any new spills evident.

    worth removing crankcase breather box and cleaning it out as well. and check/renew hose with appropriate oil tolerant one.

    heads and barrels look good.

    does your thermostat operate correctly and open the cool air flaps?

    engine mounts look ok but check and replace if at all necessary as you cant change them with shroud in situ.

    good work
     

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