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Valves tightening :/

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Farky66, Apr 2, 2014.

  1. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Hey all,
    I adjusted my valves the other day and cylinder 3 was a bit tight. I adjusted it and drove around for the last week and a bit and checked it again today. The exhaust valve of cylinder 3 had tightened a little bit and was sitting with a gap of about 0.1mm instead of 0.15mm (a 2L engine). I know its bad news when the valves start to tighten so I was thinking of setting the gap one last time and drive for a bit more and if its no good take then engine out.
    My plan was to only do minor surgery on it by just changing the valves, piston rings and pushrod seals ect, without going too deep. I was wondering if this is a fairly simple task as in my head it doesnt seem too bad? If there is anyone with experience with this or can think of anything to tell me or add please let me know.

    Thanks
    Lochie
     
  2. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,362
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It will be the valve seat bedding in, time for new/referb heads
     
  3. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Ahh bugger, I guess id just have to see the damage when its pulled apart...
    Also in regards to difficulty, this still seems in the fairly straight forward category, or...?
     
  4. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Yes, could be a valve seat coming loose. Have you done a compression test/Leakdown test? Does it sound like it is cranking unevenly? Doesn't like idling?

    I wouldn't bother with refurb heads...they are the same problem waiting to happen again.

    I have an 1800 here with the same issue but on one head(#1 and #2). It had the problem in a minor form but decided that it didn't want to play anymore... getting new heads in the interim while another motor is being built to replace it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  5. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Hi Andrew,
    Nah i havnt done a compression test on it but will do one in the next few days and let you know how i go. When it comes to cranking and idling everything seems fine to me, and it still drives well. I just dont want something relatively small to create a more expensive problem by dropping a valve or something like that...
     
  6. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA

    How tight was the clearance on #3 the first time around?

    If they are an older set of heads(genuine VW- part number in the rocker box area on the head), then you will probably find they will be cracked up the exhaust ports to the seats, plug bosses cracked... This will render them as bin food.
     
  7. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Last time I did it I had a mate doing #3 because I was busy doing something else on the van, but he seemed to thing it was fairly tight. After driving for a couple of weeks after that I checked and it had closed up to about 0.10mm.

    Yeah I had a feeling something like that would be the case. If I was to pull the motor out and have a better look and found the heads were stuffed how much would you say a new set of heads would be?
     
  8. blown_around74

    blown_around74 Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Ghinni Ghinni
    First redo the valves again, all yourself, you mate could have been bit heavy handed when doing lock nut up. And let rocker move a mickey, then if tightens again, pull head off and have pressure and crack tested. Then go from there, no use freaking out for nothing. But don't leave for too ling, valves seats do fall out and create damage. Have you been using valve saver in your fuel?
     
  9. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Hey Blown_around, cheers for the advice. I will re-do the valves tomorrow and also do a compression test to see how its going anyway. Yeah that was my main concern as I dont want to drop a valve and have to fork out many more $$$. Never used valve saver before? ?
     
  10. blown_around74

    blown_around74 Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Ghinni Ghinni
    You should be using valve saver or flash lube, buy a bottle from from auto parts place, supercheap etc.if you haven't been using it, that maywell be why you are having this issue. Flashlube or valve saver replaces the lead which was removed from fuel. It is a lubricant. Without it, you damage valve guides, stems and seats. Check valves, but I would be prepared to be taking heads off and repaired.
     
  11. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Ah ok, Iv never heard much about the valve saver but definitely worth it in the future. Think its too late now, just re-did the valves and did a compression test and the results wernt great.
    Here they are:
    Cyl. 1: 90 psi
    Cyl. 2: 65 psi
    Cyl. 3: 65 psi
    Cyl. 4: 95 psi
     
  12. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Agree somewhat...

    Do the clearances yourself... If there was an issue, you will have clearances that are closing up fairly quickly, say 1-2 wks or less from 0.006"-zero...

    0.10mm is 0.004", that is not hard to do if you let the adjuster creep when tightening a jam nut.
     
  13. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Did you the comp test engine hot and Wide open throttle?

    Next squirt some oil into each cylinder as you do them a second time around to see how much it improves. The readings above are very poor. Have a decent quality gauge?
     
  14. blown_around74

    blown_around74 Member

    Messages:
    29
    Location:
    Ghinni Ghinni
    Did you do the compression test using a screw in type gauge or just a hand held push in one? They are poor readings.
     
  15. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Last night when I did compression I didnt do it when hot, as id just done valves and was a bit late to start her up, wasnt sure how important it is to have it warm when doing compression??
    Also, I had my foot to the floor, but cant see if my throttle is opening fully as the choke butterfly is there which was about half open.

    The gauge seems alright quality. The compression tested I used was a screw in type one...and the tube seems not to be leaking from what I can gather but who knows.

    I will do it again with the oil test and let you know how I go. I will also do again with engine fully warm if you think it would be worth doing, and if there is a way of holding throttle open?
     
  16. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    You don't need it. It cokes up the back of the inlet valves and eventually holds them off the seats.

    All 2L heads have had seats for unleaded since day 1.


    Prematurely worn guides are a result of poor valve geometry(poor engine builder). Excessively and prematurely worn seats come about from running too hot (mixtures and timing...aka worn carbs and malfunctioning distributor, which your car has).
     
  17. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    A long as you had your foot down on the accelerator while cranking is fine.
     
  18. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    I will do the second compression test tomorrow and let you know. How much oil? Just half a cap worth?

    Wondering what to do from here, as I am lacking a lot of time at the moment so not sure I'd have the time to give it a crack myself.

    Yeah there are definitely a few issues going on. Il hopefully get this sorted then worry about the others after :/
     
  19. Farky66

    Farky66 Member

    Messages:
    275
    Location:
    Adelaide
    Just did the second compression test with a about half a cap of oil in the cylinders. Compression looking a bit better so could maybe be the rings as a major contributor to low compression?

    Cyl. 1: 80
    Cyl. 2: 80
    Cyl. 3: 90
    Cyl. 4: 130
     
  20. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,683
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    That doesn't matter.. Push ins work well..as long as a decent one.

    The Original VW dealerhship gauges were mostly MotoMeter push in testers..
     

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