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1970 Type 3 Squareback

Discussion in 'Members Rides' started by OSF, Nov 4, 2018.

  1. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    What's the deal re welding after it's already been ceramic coated? I'm guessing I'd have to take the coating off the bit to be welded?

    So it probably makes more sense to weld first and then coat the lot. Or buy the coated ones with the flanges already in place. Though I'm not sure about the impact of the big bore thing?
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,817
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    How much you planning on increasing HP?

    Going back to a big bore exhaust - there is no point putting a 1 1/2” exhaust on if you have 1 3/8” heat exchangers.

    A stock system can easily handle 100 HP and that is a decent increase.
    My 1916 was mid 70’s HP when sold.

    Have a look at CSP.

    Are Type 3 heat exchangers different?
    CSP have Type 3 ones but they are 3 times the price?
     
  3. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    Not planning on any massive increase in HP. It's just more about the fact the Big Bore Heat Exchangers from VW Heritage already have the flange welded on and are already ceramic coated. At $500AU each they seem pretty expensive, but probably not compared to me paying someone to weld and then get them coated. My DC heat exchanges cost me around $500 Just for the coating.

    Also, if the VW Heritage ones fit, then I can just assemble the whole lot in my driveway and I won't need to take it anywhere (assuming no fit issues).

    I understand all the Type 3 Heat Exchangers are the same. Could be wrong though.
     
  4. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    Ok. Barry has just thrown another spanner. The CSP Heat Exchangers have a Stainless Steel J Pipe. So this is another option.
     
  5. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,817
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    I wouldn’t be putting big bore heat exchangers on.

    I would just try and find some early cast aluminium core ones in good condition and go with them.
     
    KahunaKombi likes this.
  6. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    Correct Euan, you have to remove the ceramic coating to weld the adaptors on :(
     
  7. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    Checking the heat exchangers you have :rolleyes: may prove they are ok ..... establish what you really have once any wrap has been removed - may have been to reduced the heat and that's all but then maybe to seal holes???
    I've seen (somewhere) that the internals are replaced with a J-pipe - requires the outer case to be split/removed and internals removed then put back together and painted ...... could be an option. and seems what the CSP ones are.
    Wouldn't be surprised if the heat exchangers are no different to a standard 1600 engines as VW often kept parts the same with different numbers to identify the variant - 1 for Beetle, 2 for Transporter/Kombi, 3 for Type3 ;).

    There isn't a great amount of pipe to weld the adaptor on to ..... but enough so there is a bit protruding aft of the plate so when you fit the system/muffler it it like a male (heat exchanger end)/female (muffler end) join needs a smack to get it seat.
     
  8. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    Been thinking more about that extra clamp and why there as couldn't recall one on Paddy .... but then I never looked closely at it ..... one thing for sure is we did NOT cut any part of the header pipe or a flared end off ..... just wandering if the clamp actually secures/holds a flared sleeve on the header so the exhaust clamp fits/seals onto the header - if you get what I'm trying to explain :rolleyes::confused:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    Yep. I'm actually wondering if people having sealing problems with the clamp setup might actually be because they are not using all the parts. Looking at Bentley it looks like the correct clamp connection actually uses the two clamps, a retaining ring and a seal.
    I won't make any decision till I can get under there and have a good look (and have also had a good chat with Borris), but I'm thinking I might actually just buy the exhaust and try and install it as is with just the clamps first. It might actually do till such time as I drop out the engine and get it rebuilt (down the track). I'll then replace, flange and coat the heat exchangers along with anything else required at this time.
    If I try this and it just isn't sealing well, then I'll fast forward the heat exchanger modification as you did.
    Still thinking it through though.
     
    KahunaKombi and Barry like this.
  10. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,817
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Good thinking
     
  11. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    It'll still work fine with the clamps and as Barry had done and led me down the weld on the flange plate adaptor path based on the logical reasoning that it reduces / eliminates exhaust gas leaks as you can see in your picture.

    Welding the plates on will also be easier with the engine out.

    There was an article in VWMA on the install using the clamps - Issue #42 of VWMA Type III Corner ;)
     
  12. OSF

    OSF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,085
    Location:
    Sutherland NSW
    Yeah. Read that article. Seems pretty easy and something I can do myself in the driveway straight away. I think I'll do this for now and deal with the heat exchangers and flanges etc later on.

    I need to get the DC on the road before I spend too much money on this one.
     
    David H likes this.
  13. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    It is as you say pretty easy to do ;) and an extra pair of hands also helps :D

    Not sure on current price @ VVDS but recall it was about $880.00 delivered to me in Qld a couple of years back.
     
  14. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    20,043
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld

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