1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

77 bay steering and wander... Running out of options.....

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by Chidori, Aug 28, 2012.

  1. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,796
    Location:
    Goulburn
    I made that decision myself years ago as well - I haven’t got it always right and have made mistakes but the mistakes are MY mistakes and I take responsibility for them.

    This is not to say the professionals are all no good but often I found odd problems that weren’t simple solutions and for someone who is trying to make a loving out of fixing cars It wouldn’t be possible to pay them for the time that needs to go into researching and testing sometimes intermittent problems.

    Keep up the good work and keep your hands greasy - it’s good for you :p AND it’s much better than spending a life watching TV or dumbed out on FB
     
    TeeBee, Wayne murray and Chidori like this.
  2. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Cheers mate.

    By no means am I saying professionals are all bad, but in my experience especially with problems that require a little investigation- professionals have never found the issue. I would expect that given they work on these cars all day every day they should have a better idea of where to look for problems. My oil cooler which was completely blocked with oil and dirt was a prime example. This is another one. If I take my car to a mechanic to check wheel bearings, I would expect a professional to use a dial indicator to confirm they are in spec. Not just a wiggle test.

    Like you said, if I make mistakes at least they are mine. But at least I know I've done everything a best I can as per workshop manuals etc.

    I'm pretty sure wheel bearings were on my first ever receipt after I bought the van. Receipt said packed and adjusted. I call bullspit.
     
    TeeBee likes this.
  3. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,712
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    What do you recon on the tyres?
    I'm searching for someone else and options really limited.

    Also, ensure the bearings are not too tight.
    Usually they are set with slight play although are first check when setting alignments.
    Check after a run that they are not hot.
    Likely some wear in the old ones so new ones will adjust well.

    Agree with you and Bernie re doing things ones self.
    Same experiences.

    Re tighter to left than RT.
    Likely that is a slight difference in settings to prevent drift to left due to road camber.
    A lb or so difference in tyre pressure will compensate slightly if it's a concern.
     
    TeeBee, bazzamagoo and Chidori like this.
  4. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC


    I'm actually quite happy with the tyres - they look better than what was on there - less truck like.
    They are super quiet compared to the LT's that were on there. Now that the bearings have been tightened up - it's actually a lot nicer to drive. I reckon the steering is at 90% of what it should be. I have the new bearings on order from Mick Motors and I have a set of brake discs at home already that have been waiting to be installed. Good time to do it all. Really excited to see what the improvements are with all new bearings, seals and races.

    I adjusted the bearings using the dial indicator to within spec - on the tighter side of spec. I also checked and the washer was just able to be moved with a screwdriver. Not easily though.

    Thanks CBUS for the tip re tyre pressures to compensate - will give that a go.

    On that note - thanks everybody for your input on this steering adventure... hopefully it's a good resource for others to look at when they are experiencing vague steering.
    Hopefully I learned the expensive lessons, so that you don't have to!
     
  5. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,712
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The tyres seem stable. ? Not moving on sidewal too much ?

    If a bearing is too tight it could cause drift to one side as well.
    Just another detail ;)
     
    Chidori likes this.
  6. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Not so much drift as more of a firmer feel to the steering wheel when turning to the left than the right. eg. it feels more solid on graudual turns to the left. Turns to the right are slightly more vague. I'm willing to bet something is amiss on the inner bearings. We shall wait and see.

    No noticeable movement on the sidewall - nothing more than any other tyre on a normal car.
    The van has actually become fun to drive with all this new steering, the lowering, new engine and better tyres. I'm noticing myself taking the winding roads at a slightly faster speed. Not rally speed - but certainly enough to make it feel fun!

    Now I can get on with that rust and paint. Probably a little cold in Melbourne to be painting outdoors now... and then there's that other engine rebuild i'm in the middle of. :s
     
    TeeBee likes this.
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,712
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Thanks.

    There is one other area that I don't think has been checked.
    Bushes and bearings in the front torsion tubes.
    Can't recall symptoms.
    Assuming front arms and spindle not bent.
    Probably typically some degree out by now.

    Stuff the rust.
    Lanolin and just enjoy finally driving it for a year first :D
     
    TeeBee and Chidori like this.
  8. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    472
    Location:
    Canberra
    is your steering box centred when the wheels are in the straight ahead position? the cente position of the steering box is the tightest.
     
    Chidori likes this.
  9. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    Entire front beam was replaced to lower the van - and symptoms didn't improve or worsen afterwards. Bushes and bearings are in the beam right?
    Honestly - the slightly vague feeling to the right doesn't bother me too much - it's just noticeable. The steering seems to be more than adequate and I imagine given the improvement gained from simply re-packing the bearings and adjusting them will be improved even further by replacing the innies and outties all together. I'll check the spindle when it's apart and make sure all measures within spec.

    Steering box definitely centered. That was covered recently when I got a rebuilt steering box and installed it myself.
     
    tintop and cbus like this.
  10. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    979
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    You might have a bent steering arm On the stub axle.
    This happens from hitting into gutters and forcing the steering wheel around while the tires aren't rolling
    when the inside wheel is turned into a corner 20 deg the outer wheel should only be around 17 deg
    this happens because the steering arms are at an angle (which can be changed due to gutter smacking.)
    If way out this will also cause squealing tyres around sharp turns.
     
    Chidori, TeeBee and cbus like this.
  11. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,712
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Yep. Internal.
     
    Chidori likes this.
  12. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,728
    Location:
    newcastle
    Used to tell my mech which bearing was needed next. Inner/outers etc but that's easy when you've driven the same van for so long.
    That's gold & shows you're almost there:).
    Is that 'self centre' giving you more 'feel'?
    Didn't do both inner & outer?
    It sounds like you're coming toward a bus that drives like it's supposed to;).
    It's the feel on the wheel that will tell you your journey is finally answered:p
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  13. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,728
    Location:
    newcastle
    That have something to do with the LHS gets more wear. Bugger...just when you thought it's nailed the last bit of 'hard yards' lays in front;)
    I know you've done ball joints but have they been done on that new beam?
    Mate...throttle off...nose down...turn....throttle on full & the back follows. I'd love to hear this experience for you:cool:.
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  14. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,544
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA

    Inner beam bushes and arms....centre pin bush.... all the hidden parts.

    Finding a wheel aligner who;

    a) knows what he is doing,

    b) is not a twat/halfwit/stoned/ dunny-dore numpty who keeps trying to use holden specs on your front end and wondering why it tries to trip over itself...

    is a challenge.

    Last couple of buses I had aligned, I had to train the aligners on how to adjust it, supply the big 36mm VW spanner for the eccentric adjusters and supply the VW alignment specs.

    New shed coming with 4 post hoist and Beissbarth aligner coming, I don't have to put up with them anymore!:D
     
    Chidori, TeeBee and David H like this.
  15. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,728
    Location:
    newcastle
    Last one I used also did not have a spanner big enough :( to adjust one of the parameters. Thankfully it did not need adjustment.
    Cheers
     
    Chidori likes this.
  16. Chidori

    Chidori Active Member

    Messages:
    921
    Location:
    Fitzroy, VIC
    All I really did was check them using the dial indicator - pulled the outties, cleaned them, repacked them and retightened them to spec. Just for sh!ts and giggles (as I was in a rush) to see what it did - if anything. Surprisingly there was a noticeable improvement! :) I've got the new ones on the way, so I'll do the innies and outties properly very soon.

    The self centre is the biggest improvement. Even after the recent wheel alignment - i still had to help it back to the centre. It's still a bit like that coming from a right turn. But from a left turn - boom! Straight back. Which is why i reckon it's a dodgy inner bearing. My money is also on the LHS.

    Another improvement I noticed is that when braking hard - it stops straight - rather than pulling to one side (mostly left).


    Unless I'm mistaken - ball joints are the same ones that were replaced - I dont believe the ball joints were swapped when the new beam was installed.


    What's the best way to check this? Just with a straight edge? Definitely worth a look.
     
  17. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,712
    Location:
    sunshine coast
     
    Chidori likes this.
  18. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,544
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Check arms with VW282D. If ball joints are still original, undo the small plastic cap in the top of them and install the centering pointer out of the kit, or if not, do it with ball joints removed and install the pointer centering tool into the eye of the arm and then check. Trick is to either have the VW282D kit with all the updates and attachments or find somebody who does. I have the kit. Ball joints are also installed one way too.. if they are replaced at random without consideration to direction, your front end will bind up.

    In regard to wheel bearings, just tighten the clamp nut so that you can JUST move the thrust washer under the nut (new bearings) which will give a little preload, or for those who are experienced, tighten the nut until you start to feel preload by spinning the hub, then back it off a little(used). In both cases, there will be no radial play. You can use a dial gauge too, but if there is ANY radial play, they are too loose. Wheel bearings are a service item. I have no idea as to why folks/workshops would just ignore them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    Chidori likes this.
  19. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,544
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Lowering will also throw the caster out, if too much, then adjusters with greater eccentricity required. Its also a reason why caster shims are also installed behind type 1 front ends when lowering... which you cannot do with a bus front end.

    If you have a lowered front end with urethane bushings in place of the white metal and beam needle bearings, don't bother as your wheel alignment will sag and change as you go down the road.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    Chidori likes this.
  20. 1500king

    1500king Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,544
    Location:
    Adelaide, SA
    Yeah, you need a thin profile 12 point open end 36mm spanner to do it properly and avoid damaging the ball joint boots. They are firm in the adjuster taper and need some curry to move without undoing the upper ball joint nut too much.
     
    David H and Chidori like this.

Share This Page