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aircooled T3 vs subaru

Discussion in 'Performance' started by tillis, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. tillis

    tillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    gold coast
    Hi guys and gals...

    for those who know these sorts of things...is the injected 2litre simple to produce more power from?

    I been reading the specs and 7.4:1 compression and 3/35/35/3 valve timing is not asking much from an engine which i believe was porsche designed...

    so...are alernative cams and pistons available at an in this world expense?

    i need to compare against fitting the 2.5 subaru conversion i have here but the engine does need a rebore...

    i like the vw 2litre but thres more power lurking in there surely?
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Yes and no
    A 2.5 Subi gives about 140 RWHP I believe.
    To get that from an air cooled I would go 2.3L
    66 crank
    103 (or 105?) barrels
    45 Dels or 48 Webers
    Head work and CR
    cam

    You are going to struggle to drive in /out for $10k

    You will come close to that RWHP but probably better torque and it is still air cooled.

    My mate built several of these for kombis
     
    Resnort likes this.
  3. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Injection for air cooled monsters can get expensive
     
    Resnort likes this.
  4. tillis

    tillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    gold coast
    Hey Barry thanks for the advice...but i'm not looking for big horsepower...its a camper after all...but was just wondering if anyone fits higher compression pistons and a better cam for a freer engine...i guess i'll do the research...the subaru is an option but want to keep it straight!
     
  5. nils

    nils Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,512
    Location:
    newcastle
    Depends a little where you live too, engineering fees are getting way up there.
    Putting more beans in the old can is becoming more affordable comparitivly.
    If you are not doing the work yourself, you going to drop $10k on a well sorted conversion anyways
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,344
    Location:
    sunshine coast
  7. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    In a word, yes. Performance parts are readily available for the Type 4 making it possible to build anything from mild to wild. Perhaps the biggest challenge will be matching the planned upgrade to the L jet EFI which has next to no scope for serious improvement and has no new replacement parts available. For example, a brand new stock Type 4 running stock L jet EFI should put out around 50 RWHP. Upgrading the EFI to new generation gives around 70 RWHP. Then add a cam, 8.5:1 compression and balance delivers 82 RWHP and all of this can be done without any machine work. Another consideration is the limited number of performance cams available for hydraulic lifters. Guess the questions is what are you after?
     
    Resnort likes this.
  8. Vamper1

    Vamper1 Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Stanwell Park
    i had a subaru 2.5 litre put in my Syncro 12 months ago by a Melbourne mechanic who now specializes and only does these conversions ( he has bookings 6 months in advance)
    for $6200 plus $400 for cruise control !
    His price may have risen a little in 12 months
    I"ve just registered ( NSW ) the van last week with Subaru engine , the Engineers report cost $680.00
    Im very happy !!
     
    micklyan and Resnort like this.
  9. nils

    nils Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,512
    Location:
    newcastle
    Wow thats great pricing, no way could I do it for that
     
  10. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,044
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It depends which parts you use.
     
  11. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,941
    Location:
    Gosford
    Are you prepared to share the name of the mechanic?
     
    Resnort likes this.
  12. tillis

    tillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    gold coast
    i had an interesting read last night of the history of the porsche914 which is where the injected 2litre vw comes from. in the 914 it was putting out 100ps horses. it was detuned for the type2 and T3 and looks like that was done via lower compression and valve timing.

    flat top higher compression pistons and barrel kits are available in US for under $300. hydraulic cam and lifter kits with longer duration also available for around the same.

    with better exhaust and ignition(points...what the...!) seems like extra 50% is quite possible and still be a well behaved camper

    geez new pistons and barrel no machining...gotta love it! yeah its stupidly old school...right where i live...heheh
     
    Resnort likes this.
  13. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,084
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    Its not stupid, some might say sensible to retain air cooled simplicity. Just depends on what you want to achieve. Question: is that a swing away spare wheel carrier on your bus? What, where and from whom if I may ask?
     
    cbus likes this.
  14. tillis

    tillis Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    355
    Location:
    gold coast
    Hi AC T3 (Rob) my name is Rob too. I read the bit about your engine rebuild and very impressive...just the sort of changes i want, compression cam ignition and maybe better injection. I,ve had turbo and NA subarus in my bay but don't want to change the T3 much it drives so well as is but i feel it could breathe a little better.

    yeah i made the swing tyre carrier...the tyre is too big for the front! tyre carrier.jpg
     
    MikeCormack likes this.
  15. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,044
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    The heads are actually different. I have seen them side by side and you can easily see which one is the Porsche.
     
  16. Andy.

    Andy. Active Member

    Messages:
    521
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Well spotted Phil, yes the heads were quite different, externally and internally. Don't forget the VW 411, the engine was a joint venture, more went in 411's than into 914's. In fact 411's were marginally lighter than a 914! VW supplied 411's in many guises, so many were carbie and low compression long before they ended up in a kombi. In the US, many 411's were raided for their engines. (914 heads were different to a 411, and the 914 heads will not work with the tinware on a kombi/411)
    From what I have read Porsche was never keen on the motor, but VW was trying to spread the development cost.
    For the kombi VW were chasing a flatter torque curve and better low end torque, so not necessarily detuned.

    With the engine, why would you stick with hydraulic lifters if your after better performance? And don't forget exhaust upgrades!
     
  17. peter1000

    peter1000 Active Member

    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    maybe a turbo or nos kit and some praying
     
  18. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    The US also got the 912E.
    Where as we got the 912 with the Super 90 Type 1 motor they got a 911 with a Type 4 motor
     
  19. Vamper1

    Vamper1 Member

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Stanwell Park
    Luke at Bayside Motor Garage 13/59-65 Keys Rd Moorabbin , Melbourne
    0425784367
    great guy !
    he has several kombis!
     
    micklyan likes this.
  20. Blunderbus

    Blunderbus Active Member

    Messages:
    552
    Location:
    St Helena, Melbourne .
    Any engine can have minor work done to add a bit of power and efficiency , every motor i have taken the head/heads off get a mild port & polish at the minimum .
    Coupled with a good ignition system and exhaust you will a more drive-able package, low comp engines benefit from a bump in CR up to a max of 9:1.
     

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