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Bought advanced timing light - should it measure advance ?

Discussion in 'Bay Tech Clinic' started by VaiseW, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,634
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    A rare earth magnet, near the handle of your screwdriver, is better than blutak….
    You never want to suffer the anguish of dropping that little screw down the guts of the dizzy…..it’s soul destroying in the early days…..
    ….and yes, the more you service your bus, the better at it you get.
    Now you know why I recommended a head torch and magnifiers ! :rolleyes:
    I usually work from an old rolling desk chair with the backrest removed. I can drop it down to its lowest setting and work comfortably…..makes a huge difference to the number of swear words you use !
    Keep your eyes out for the next Council cleanup….they seem to get thrown out regularly.
    Sounds like you’re getting there.
    Next best thing is an EI module that replaces the points, not the distributor…you’ll never need to adjust points or timing again.
    Buy a quality unit and have it installed by someone who knows how critical the air gap setting is.
    I’ve had mine in now for 9 years and it’s never missed a beat, never backfires and the timing has never changed. I’m seriously tempted by the 123 tune though ….:D
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
    Barry likes this.
  2. Ijam

    Ijam Active Member

    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Robertson NSW
    Had lots , funny thing just sold my dizzy adjustment tool for Essex engine v4 as in transit van I had it for 40 years , hopefully it went to a good home .
     
  3. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,612
    Location:
    newcastle
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2021
    tintop likes this.
  4. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    Thanks for all the replies.
    I did in the end call a halt while I found my head torch, led strip light - hand saved there trying to hold my iphone!
    My screwdriver was magnetic, but not really strong enough, I have lots of rare earth magnets - The bluetack worked a treat tho.
    I still am not sure if it was the new points that meant I got the dwell in spec, or I was just lucky on the new points ?
    So I am now confident in doing this again, and know the warning signs that cause it. I guess you have to have every issue with a kombi to learn from it.

    The lack of quality points availability does worry me however. Andrew did say they are better than EI - I did have the petronix stuff in there first and he cut it off, showed me how it was blocking the advance plate (I think that is what he said). I guess he still has it somewhere on his floor or something.
    The spare distributor is a new (as of 3 months ago) Accuspark SVDA with EI (that was my original one with the bosch/petronix as a spare before Andrew).
    Andrew the accuspark on his distributor machine and pointed out where these Chinese ones are not so great (something about the midrange maybe), I forget what he said exactly.
    I know peeps on here use accuspark.
    I could I suppose pull the EI module out of it and install in the bosch if the points situation becomes critical.
     
  5. Mordred

    Mordred Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,005
    Location:
    Penna, Hobart
    Honestly, take the Dizzy out to fiddle with the points. It is one 13mm bolt holding it there and a separate clamp stops it rotating and is for changing the timing. Leave the clamp bolt in place and you won’t have to worry about changing the timing, then to refit, turn the rotor until it locks in, fit the 13 mm nut and you are done. Why spend the effort trying not to drop screw etc when you can do it on the bench. They made the clamp set up for exactly this reason. Do it once this way and you won’t ever go back to sticking your head in there to do it.

    Adrian
     
  6. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    Guess I need to investigate that then.
    You make that sound very easy.
    I have seen the bolt that holds this in, I'm not quite understanding this clamp thing you mention.
    I remember seeing my mechanic in there turning it and tightening something when doing timing - I assumed it was the same bolt!!!!!

    For the future :
    I should practice by swapping the distributor around for the spare accuspark one so I get a handle on that process too for when I may have to do it on the side of the road.
    I believe there is another step however when swapping distributors - not a straight swap.
    Is it that they have to be pointing to the same way (rotor to Number 1 cylinder) ? I have read that somewhere. Will do some reading before I attempt that.
     
  7. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,911
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    @VaiseW

    This is a Type 1 case but same same

    Only pic I could find with a clamp on a distributor

    upload_2021-6-21_13-36-36.png
     
  8. Mr Beckstar

    Mr Beckstar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,154
    Location:
    Bateau Bay, NSW
    Forget all of that. Use the strobe light. I’ll try to find a link to a video.
     
    Ijam likes this.
  9. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    Hi Mr Beckstar - I have that all sussed. Timing is fine. Advance is fine.
     
    Mr Beckstar likes this.
  10. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    Jeez - I spoke too soon.
    I thought I was all good. points gap must have 'adjusted' itself again.
    Will not idle.
    Gave it another crack, and again I just cant seem to get this right.
    My mechanic must be on holiday, as he is not answering phone.
    I am going to put the accuspark distributor back in I think and see if that makes any difference.
    If it works fine, I am going to just buy the 123tune+ thing from Andrew.
     
  11. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,478
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Beware buying things to fix something that may just need adjustment.
    The next thing you buy may need the same to set up.

    Persevere with the learning process or your bus will become very expensive ;)
     
    Mordred, Mr Beckstar and oldman like this.
  12. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,634
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    I would suggest that the 123 tune is more complex to setup properly, than a set of points…..
    The base curve has to be set to the vehicle it’s going in…and by someone who knows what they are doing.
    Andrew has posted about this a few times. The 123 is not a cheap unit, so to just chuck it in without due diligence would be false economy in my opinion.
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  13. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    It’s very expensive anyway……
    I will just get buried in it when I die……

    I am going to have another crack today, if no good, will remove it to desktop and have a go there instead.

    If no good then will put the old one back in with EI.

    just checking procedure for removal :
    1 - set to TDC
    2 - confirm rotor is Ponting towards cylinder 1
    3 - remove distributor,
    4 - setup
    5 - rotor back on and Ponting to same position
    6 - install.

    step 5 is same if replacing with old one.
     
  14. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,634
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    No need to find tdc if you are going to remove the dizzy in my opinion…..
    Having the rotor point to no.1 just allows you to locate the dizzy base/key way more easily and helps ensure you’re not 180 deg. out.
    Just undo the 13 mm bolt and remove it.
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  15. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,246
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    The CSP is easy to set up. Just pick the number from the chart. Turn the selector with a screwdriver. I've just bought one from Vintage Vee Dub Supplies and set it to curve "C" for my engine as per the chart.

    CSP is more reliable as it shuts off if it is not rotating. Also you get a new distributor.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  16. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,911
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Phill

    That is for the 123.
    That is not for the 2.0/1.8L Type 4 motor.
    It does say 1.7L Type 4 though.

    The 123 Tune is slightly different set up and you need to programme them, not select the programme from a switch
     
  17. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,246
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Depends which one you get. Some of them are programmable and some are via a selector. CSP is a 123 in a different body. There are 16 advance curves to select from the switch. I don't know what you mean not for 2.0L???

    I made a mistake it's actually curve "C" for my engine.
     
  18. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,911
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Mordred likes this.
  19. VaiseW

    VaiseW Active Member

    Messages:
    129
    Location:
    Burleigh Heads, QLD, 4220
    So -

    I never removed the distributor/points in the end. I re-seated all cables, swapped the coil (and back again) and adjusted the gap very very very carefully (with some daylight this time too).
    I just managed a 47 (48 when revving) dwell angle - so that's good.
    Timing when warmed up is bouncing 5 mm back and forth around the timing mark, which I guess is due to the revs not being a perfect static amount. I adjusted idle screw so it just bounces between 860 and 960 ish.
    I dont know why it is bouncing around. May need another carb tune up - that's beyond my scope.......

    Next task - put the old original points back in and see if I can get the same dwell - seeing as the consensus is that Andrews points are way better than anything else.
    I also want to swap distributor to my spare (and back again) just so I am confident of this on the road.

    The next road trip is End September - across from Gold Coast inland, pick up the south road passing Andrew for some more Kombi loving (if its a 123, then that will be the time it goes in), then on around the bottom, Nullabor, around coast to Perth, up to Broom, Darwin, then back over the top.

    I have a spare distributor, spare coil, spare points and condenser, spare voltage regulator, spare accelerator and clutch cable, spare vacuum elbows, enough fuel/oil/air filters for servicing.
    Any ideas what else I should have onboard ? Of course what you need is not what I will have regardless - but the spare coil was needed on my last trip south hugging coast to S.A, and up to Andrew.
     
  20. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,246
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    CSP uses 123 internals. Curve 9 for 2000cc.

    I can't see why it would be different???? Maybe 123 don't list it as it is replacing a dual vacuum distributor?

    Anyhow Andrew sells CSP (usually) as well as Vintage Vee Dub Supplies. I tried to buy a CSP from Andrew but he was having supply problems with Covid.

    Did I tell you that I hate points?
     
    oldman likes this.

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