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Brake lines

Discussion in 'T3 & T4 Tech Help Clinic' started by Whitie, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. Whitie

    Whitie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Warriewood
    I recently had to replace the brake line in our T3.
    Some foolish backyard DIY put a holesaw through the very well hidden line while fitting a table base...Me :eek:
    My non-VW mech installed copper brake lines, at great expence.
    Ive since spoken to someone who experienced a complete brake failure due to the copper line used in his FJ and suggested I have them replaced to steel or s/s ASAP.
    Im now very concerned about the safety of the braking system.
    Wadda reakon KC.
    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. jon ward

    jon ward Active Member

    Messages:
    5,752
    Location:
    Travelling Australia
  3. Whitie

    Whitie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Warriewood
    Cheers Jon.
    Would u know if the original lines are steel or cooper.
    Tony
     
  4. jon ward

    jon ward Active Member

    Messages:
    5,752
    Location:
    Travelling Australia
    Couldn't answer that one mate.

    Grant aka Grantus is the T3 guru, he will know.

    My guess would be steel or some alloy of...
     
  5. I believe that copper lines are now illegal as far as brake lines go.
     
  6. Van Housing

    Van Housing Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,432
    Location:
    Yarraville Vic
    I couldn't find any evidence online that copper pipes are actually outlawed in Australia - but I did find many references to the fact that pure-copper lines are flexible but prone to failure, especially if worked (although some copper lines contain 10% nickel for strength).

    I would definitely replace it with steel bundy line anyway to be safe, you certainly don't want to risk brake failure.
     
  7. Whitie

    Whitie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Warriewood
    I think they used copper because its easy to bend into shape.

    Woz, should I request for 'steel bundy line' is that what is used.

    Thanks
     
  8. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    16,976
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Kinds words Jon...... BUT,

    Just having driven a T3 for 370,000 kms in the 22 year ownership, only makes you slightly wiser, allows you to experience some interesting quirks, but def doesn't make you a T3 guru! :lol:

    And brake lines, are not something that has failed on me, yet! Nor have I drilled through an existing line, and needed to replace. :eek:

    I'm passing this one on to those wiser ones, who would have a better clue:

    Namely Steve (kombirescue), or Col (cbus), or Hally...... or any other T3 owner that has had the chance or need, to upgrade or replace their brake plumbing. :)



    For whats it's worth, I can't see an issue with copper being used to hold brake fluid under pressure for the system. I'd have thought the weak spot would be any couplings and connections.

    If there was a serious leak, and the pedal drops softly to the floor, any T3 can be successfully pulled up, by down shifting gears, in combination with gentle and appropriate use of the handbrake, even going downhill.

    However, this won't wipe of enough momentum in an emergency braking situation, but will still reduce the impact.
     
  9. Hally

    Hally Member

    Messages:
    412
    Location:
    Beaconsfield Vic
    Got this off another forum

    http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=65131

    From Queensland Transport

    HYDRAULIC LINES
    Reasons for rejection:
    • Hydraulic lines are not securely mounted, not free from damage or corrosion, show evidence
    of leakage and are not constructed of approved material. (See Note 1)

    NOTES:
    (1) Normal commercial copper tubing has been prohibited from use in brake systems
    because it is considered prone to cracking due to work hardening. However, there is a
    Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Recommended Practice called Tubing – Motor
    Vehicle Brake Tubing Hydraulic – SAE J1047 which is the accepted industry standard.
    Persons wishing to use copper tube for vehicle hydraulic brake lines, must first provide
    proof of compliance with SAE J1047 or equivalent standard.

    And Here section 2.4 http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/ro...etin/pdf/NCOP5_Section_LG_Brakes_3Feb2006.pdf

    Says it all Hydraulic pipes must be made from steel bundy tube complying with SAE J1047 or equivalent.

    Here is the all of the documents

    http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/vsb_ncop.aspx

    Hope this helps
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  10. gazman

    gazman Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,844
    Location:
    Perth WA
    We make our own brake lines and always use steel tube. Ive always been concerned that copper tube would eventually crack from vibrations felt in normal driving conditions.
    Any half decent brake specialist should have no problem whipping up a new line for ya.
     
  11. Whitie

    Whitie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Warriewood
    Ive spoken to NSW RTA Vehicle Technical and asked what are the requirements regarding copper brakelines within NSW.

    'must have double flaring, no seams single extruded copper line'

    I wasn't easily convinced and rang again, spoke to another chap who was quite knowledgable on the subject.
    He confirmed the previous statement and said it was commonly used.

    Ive confirmed with the mech that the lines are as the above standard.

    Thankyou for the great interest & information supplied by everyone,
    hopefully someone else will find this usefull as a future reference on brakelines.

    Cheers
    Tony
     

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