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EV Kombis

Discussion in 'Performance' started by Voltwagen, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,259
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    sunshine coast
  2. Luckyphil

    Luckyphil Well-Known Member

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    6,918
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    Gosford
    I think some will be + and some - :)
     
    Voltwagen likes this.
  3. saabman

    saabman Well-Known Member

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    4,888
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    Goulburn
    The track looks way more refined than the days of the climb dance video with the Peugeot!
     
  4. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

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    5,572
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    Abbotsford NSW
  5. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

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    22,222
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    Bracken Ridge, Qld
  6. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

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    5,572
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    Abbotsford NSW
  7. pat84

    pat84 Member

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    Here's what you want: https://www.sae.org/news/2019/11/volkswagen-type-20-concept-car
    No mention of battery size or where it is so I doubt it goes very far.
    If anyone's serious I could build one. If you want enough range to get from station to station up the east cost you'll need around 45kwh worth of batteries. That's around $25000 used from a Tesla before you even look at getting an electric motor, charger, converters and the rest of it.
     
  8. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

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    1,617
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    Hmmm..... after seeing Daisy the Disney car suffer a serious meltdown when the Tesla cells went ballistic, I don't think I'd want to be in a Kombi when they went off There is a lot of other systems running in the background that keep the Tesla cells from going off like that, and that requires a lot of extra management that would need to be after market designed and perfected, it can't just be adapted out of the Tesla because it is integrated into the vehicle air conditioning system and controlled by multiple on board computers.
    Better to stick to the safer chemistries, LFP, LYP and LTO, they don't go bang if they aren't treated with care.
    A friend rebuilt his PHEV Prius extended range battery pack using the NMC cells (LiNiMnCo) and the thing burnt itself while just parked at home, not charging or discharging and had a really good battery management system looking after the cell health. Seems the aluminium cases swelled and wore through the inter-cell isolation sheeting, shorted out and the arc melted a hole through the floor setting flammable bits nearby on fire at the same time.
    Safe cell chemistry is vital, unless you have a method of actively cooling the cells that runs full time, avoid the more volatile lithium chemistries even though they have great energy to weight ratios.

    T1 Terry
     
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,259
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Nice heads up Terry.

    This can only get better as all the crystal worshipers decide they're going to save the world by making their own electric cars .:D.

    " Don't need a degree to put one of these things together" :eek: ??
     
    syncro likes this.
  10. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

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    1,617
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    There is a forum, well a few actually, but this one is Australian based http://forums.aeva.asn.au/index.php where they guide those who need help through the traps and pitfalls to build a reliable, safe and legal EV conversion. Some of the stuff needs a professor's education to decipher what was said, but then a few of them are professors and engineers etc, but they are happy to explain it if needs be till you can follow the next instruction.
    Amazing how many half completed conversions appear on Gumtree and the likes that end up requiring a "start again" once the vehicle is purchased, but they keep on trying :lol:
    A long way from the forklift motor or the old DC motor conversions these days, you can even buy the drive part from a Tesla out of the US and they now have after market controllers to power them up, but you'd need to be very keen to go down that path with the re-engineering etc required and then the $$ as well. It would make a real fast Kombi though :lol:

    T1 Terry
     
  11. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,259
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I was under impression that 100V DC was maximum that unqualified persons are allowed to muck with. ?

    Definately potential but my consideration is always tempered by financial factors.

    Have looked at various options including hybrid but payback time still a killer.
     
  12. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

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    Southern Highlands
    Maybe a state thing but not in NSW.
     
  13. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,259
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    sunshine coast
    So no upper limit ?
    Is that for just DC or how does it apply for AC in vehicle motors.
    Guessing AC domestic and industrial is covered in building codes or similar ?
     
  14. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

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    Abbotsford NSW
    You need to be licensed to work on an electrical installation.

    An electrical installation means any fixed appliances, wires, fittings, meters, apparatus or other electrical equipment used for (or related to) conveying, measuring, controlling and using electricity in a particular place. It does not include:
    • any electrical equipment operating at not more than 50 volts alternating current or 120 volts ripple-free direct current
    https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/trades-and-businesses/licensing-and-qualifications/electrical
     
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  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,259
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Ta.
    So EV AC motors and DC systems over set amounts come under this .?
    Any amatuer work would need to be surveyed and signed off by qualified sparky specialist in the field.?
     
  16. pat84

    pat84 Member

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    62
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    Not this regulation. AS5732. Don’t bother googling it, you need to buy it. Cost me around $150 from memory. Very similar rules to the electrical industry with a lot of push back clauses to manufacturers. Basically to work on one you need to hold one unit from aureth. See training.gov.au for an overview of local accredited courses. Additionally you'll need access to manufacturers specs for whatever you choose to play with. No official licensing yet though. It'll come.
    I could do a safe installation but as above cost is the main issue. I hold an electrical ticket as required and train the units. I’ve pulled down live batteries, tested and balanced cells all that. Not small Toyota stuff. Stuff that’ll turn you into a fried sausage before you know you've made a mistake.
    An honest safe setup today would be sitting around $50k. Even this would have flaws. Main one being the charge rate. Also the power wouldn’t be amazing. If you want one that performs like the current vehicles on the market your looking at double. Honestly this will still have flaws. If you look at the solla rolla videos of the Kombi they built for Red Foo you'll have a pretty good understanding of the work needed.
    I looked at it as a business and decided the demand isn’t worth the risk. It'll come though. The cost is definitely coming down rapidly as manufacturers invest more and more heavily.
     
    cbus likes this.
  17. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    Hmmmm...... seems to have stepped on a few toes, sorry. As far as the $50k price tag to do a conversion ..... umm.... you can buy a brand new Kona with a 450km range for $60, so I doubt you'll be flooded with work any time soon.
    As far as the licence etc, this is where the standards and licencing run into the very grey area. As long as the grid is not involved, the whole licensing thing gets to be more a fist shake than anything, check out the requirements to become a member of the clean energy council to perform off grid design and installation, the only requirement is a working at heights to cover the solar install on the roof. The licence requirements only start once you add grid connection.
    Anyway, the rules make sure all is safe when you come to getting it registered and on the road. Engineer certificates and a book of rules to comply with means all has been thought about and a rule written to cover it. They even have leakage to the chassis covered, a house install doesn't even have that because one line of the supply is actually tied to the metal frame of any building.
    Definitely a project for someone who has read the safe guards and understands the risks when working with high voltage DC and AC, you could be messing with over 700vdc and that will let you know you did something silly, but then the lead out of the coil in an ICE engine will do that and from an electronic ignition .... way more volts involved and at a current that will kill you.
    Just like working on the brakes, replacing bearings or even replacing a wheel, it can be dangerous and have the potential to kill you or someone else.

    I still put forward the whole DIY warning about battery chemistry, lead acid is dangerous , they let off gasses in the perfect mix that will explode if ignited, LFP, LYP or LTO can release a vapour if abused, but that needs to combine with oxygen in the surrounding air to even become flammable. The other lithium compounds used for battery manufacture, they produce oxygen inside the cell if over voltage/under voltage/over temperature occurs and this is what enables the rapid flame front known as an explosion. These cells can be rapid charged and rapid discharged, far faster than the LFP,LYP and LTO cells, but they produce serious heat when they are forced to do that so the cooling is the essential inclusion with monitoring cell voltages to make sure they remain within the safe zones.

    Anyway, When I start the electrification of Kombi, I'll start a thread here for those interested to follow the progress.

    T1 Terry
     
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  18. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,259
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Seeing as I have a diploma covering stand alone solar design and installation I will claim that my EV Kombi is a transportable house with fixed wheels :D
     
  19. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

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    9,906
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    That's in buildings. I worked with 1500V DC and 415V AC for 45 years no licence required.
     
  20. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

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    5,572
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Ummm.........ok.

    Can I ask on what sort of equipment?

    Happy to be wrong, but....... I am.........amazed/astounded........ that you can work on those voltages without a licence.
     

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