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EV Kombis

Discussion in 'Performance' started by Voltwagen, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I still believe there would be a place for low range EVs and less environmental impact. The percentage of Australians living in cities is over 86%. So an EV with range of only 120km (the first gen leaf) would suit a fair proportion of us as the commute vehicle. Telsa have upped the expectations by providing 400+ km range, and now it seems we all need that range for EVs to be viable? I predict that there will be low range options available to us (again) when the supply of materials to make those 75+kwh battery packs becomes problematic and we are offered 24kwh packs in cheaper entry level city cars. 120km would even get me to the beach if there is a charge point at the carpark.
     
    johnvw and wombatventures like this.
  2. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,470
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    What they say and reality may be two different things.

    I have found a lot of BS with EVs. Real world tests are different.
     
  3. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,565
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    @syncro
    He has been driving up to Walcha for over 2 years now in the Tesla.
    Definitely real world times.

    Sure, you can’t drive to Brisbane in a non stop, I have a super frugal diesel scenario.
    Most of us don’t mind at least a stop every 2-3 hrs.
    I know I wouldn’t last that long in a car without stopping

    Just saying what my mate does that I know is real
     
    oldman likes this.
  4. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    11,397
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    Thanks Col….;)
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
  5. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Brisbane
  6. AC-T3

    AC-T3 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,201
    Location:
    Woy Woy
    BS applies to both sides of the argument. Depends on your focus.
     
    oldman and Grantus like this.
  7. wombatventures

    wombatventures Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,797
    Location:
    Peterborough SA
    I agree Paul. I'm contemplating it for an around town work ute. Worst is I'm one of the 13.9% who live 200 + km from the city so even the nearest other town is 40km each way and decent shopping 100+. Will mean an ev ute for local work, a Ice for out of town work and an ice for other. At present there are 9 possible runners in my yard so I'm working out what to do what to.
     
    paul77 likes this.
  8. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,811
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    Even if you bought ab EV that had a 120km range, you can increase the battery capacity to increase the range ..... or even change the battery chemistry for something that will give better range and enable fast charging. An EV conversion using a 3 phase AC motor will have good regen braking, so some of the range can be regained with the stops and down hill braking sections ..... range anxiety is something the oil companies keep pushing as the reason an EV isn't suitable for Australian conditions, yet with a range of 240km you can drive from Sydney to Perth with fast chargers during the day and over night stops at the slower charging stations .... and that will improve over time.
    I just spent (well a few mths back) $10,000 buying LTO cells to build a replacement battery for my Blade Electron so I can increase its range ...... still a project at the moment because we are flat chat in the business, but the LFP cells that came with the car are out now, 12 yr old so the 10 yr life cycle is put to death, they still drive the car just fine, but it doesn't have the range I need so I'm looking at upgrading the battery. The car cost $6,000, add $10,000 for a replacement battery (less what ever I get for the used cells) and I'll hopefully have a 2010 EV with a 240km plus range that will get me to Adelaide and back, including the big climb out of the Adelaide hills. The battery cost represents 5,000 ltrs of fuel at today's prices, 4,400 ltrs once the fuel excise discount is over .... how much a ltr will fuel be in 6 mths time ...... I bet it's more than $2.25 lt .... We average around 20,000 km a yrs, at 7lt/100km that's 1400 ltrs a yr, that 5,009 ltrs the battery cost would have bought in today's pricing would last 3.5 yrs ......

    Not every application will suit a pure EV, a hybrid will better suit some users, but an increase in the hybrid battery capacity results in a much better lts/100km figure .... horses for courses

    T1 Terry
     
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,642
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    https://www.google.com/search?q=gas...d=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#imgrc=oTxdeHYeNum9sM
     
    paul77 likes this.
  10. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,043
    Location:
    Brisbane
    cbus likes this.
  11. wombatventures

    wombatventures Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,797
    Location:
    Peterborough SA
    I had a ride in Kurt Johanna's years ago when I lived in The Alice. The 20 minutes + getting the fire going was a pain, but it ran well enough.
    I use all my wood keeping the house warm during winter.:(
     
  12. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,811
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    Anyone watch the 7:30 report last night about EV's in Alice Springs .... at least it's a start towards getting that "electric Highway" to become a reality .....

    T1 Terry
     
  13. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,072
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
  14. Mr Beckstar

    Mr Beckstar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    Bateau Bay, NSW
    Nice. Install a fast charger in the outback. What's the money it'll be run by a diesel generator :D

    I hope they do get these up and running. Perhaps a combination of solar, power from the grid and some batteries at the site.

    If I'm to let go of my nostalgic view of transport, I'd have to admit electric motors do make more sense for driving a car. It's just the storage and charging aspect that's been the problem.

    I still don't understand why manufacturers have not made a battery that can be easily replaced by a charged battery. Kind of like a Swap and Go that you have for gas bottles at the servo. It's the most obvious thing you can do with a battery and would allow the batteries to be designed for longer life which is currently compromised by the need to charge them fast. I picture a kind of service station where you drive onto battery swapping machine. You sit in your car in the same way you do in a car wash whilst the machine does the work. Surely a battery could be changed in a few minutes if the design of the car and the battery was done right.
     
    David H, rstucke and syncro like this.
  15. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,792
    Location:
    newcastle
    Be some machine to swap a Kombi battery:mad:.
    Met a guy once whom had just converted to 2 slide out trays behind the back wheels:). Made the battery swap easy ......looked s##t from the panel side of the goods. Guess if you're old the practical is the most important & I see my days of securing the battery into the Kombi spot a bit more challenging each year:mad::(.
    Cheers
     
  16. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,811
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    Just like spare parts, every manufacturer has to put their own plug on the same item that might fit 5 different vehicles.
    The cost would be astronomical to set up and probably take longer than the 20 min fast charge available these days.
    I think the issue with how each battery pack has been used would be another problem, sort of like having a quick swap engine that isn't really your responsibility, it would get a flogging because there would be no repercussions resulting in shorter life ....
    I think the battery problem will resolve itself once the EV market gets better established, resale of used battery packs to reconditioners who build big capacity site battery for the recharging stations ..... solves a lot of the issues being thrown about when it comes to recycling old EV batteries ....

    I've been doing just that to build batteries for various projects, like the solar powered 12v water pump out of the Murray that waters our garden and fills the toilet and shower water tank ..... and replacement batteries for my vehicle fleet when the lead acid one dies .....

    T1 Terry
     
  17. Mr Beckstar

    Mr Beckstar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    Bateau Bay, NSW
    You're right; there would be no machine to swap a standard kombi battery it's a pig of a location.
    But an EV battery bolted up underneath the Kombi or any car for that matter would be a different story.
     
  18. Mr Beckstar

    Mr Beckstar Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    Bateau Bay, NSW
    A few minutes would be all that's needed if it's done right. Less time than filling a petrol tank. It's definitely possible; it's just whether the will is there. Missing a great opportunity.
     
    syncro likes this.
  19. T1 Terry

    T1 Terry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,811
    Location:
    Mannum South Australia
    An under floor battery, as adopted by most EV manufacturers, would require the vehicle to up on the hoist or drive over a pit, a lifting device to remove the discharged battery and move it to the recharging and testing area, then the recharged replacement loaded onto the trolley and bolted into place. The vehicle on board computer would then need to be rest to the new battery capacity, it didn't detect the recharging current or time so it would just flag a battery error next time the system was initiated, then moved back off the hoist/pit and parked up ready for the customer to pick it up ....

    Compare that to the customer pulling up in the charging bay, plugging into the system already part of the vehicle, the charger does the handshake and determines the voltage and current the vehicle is capable of accepting, all in a few secs, then the charge takes place. It can simply be a transfer of stored capacity already to use in the sites battery pack, just like filling a fuel tank with a fast delivery pump, the site battery is a higher voltage and higher capacity than the EV battery, so the charger just limits the current and watches for the target voltage to get close, then slowly reduces the current until the target voltage is reached and the current drops to what ever the preset limit the vehicle has communicated to the charger during the handshake, stops the charge an notifies the customers phone that their vehicle if charged and ready to drive out of the charging bay, the cost has already been deducted from the customers account and if the customer doesn't move the vehicle within the required time period, a parking fee is charged to encourage the customer to vacate the charger. Sort of like waiting in line for the vehicle still at the bowser to move off, but the customer is busy in a line at the cashier or doing their dinner order or amenities trip, but there is no insentive for them to get out of way to let someone else use the bowser .....

    A progressive service centre on a main highway might have special charging bays outside the restaurant so the customer can recharge while having a meal, the cost of the charge included in the meal price ......

    T1 Terry
     
  20. syncro

    syncro Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,470
    Location:
    Southern Highlands
    It's already been done with HGVs. They just stop and the batteries are in a cassette that just slides in on a rack. No connections or tools required. It takes a few seconds and the drive off. Commercial vehicles cannot afford to have down time.

    Imagine the amount of cells that you could fit in the under floor locker of a single cab? Single cabs would be ideal for a conversion.
     

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