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Evie - 1966 Aussie Delivered 11 Window Kombi

Discussion in 'Resto Corner' started by 68BUS, Nov 19, 2013.

  1. paul77

    paul77 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,010
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I like the methodical approach there Brad. By the time you get it running will know the setup inside out.all the best with it!
     
  2. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Got about 3 hours today. And with a few distractions managed to get the extentions for the power feeds on and back through the fire wall.
    Instead of crimp joiners I soldered the connections, electrical taped then shrink wrapped (with glue core shrink wrap).
    Making sure to put the shrink wrap on the cables before I joined then. (Learning from past mistakes).
    Then mounted the cpu. (Disconnected now till wired up and everything double checked).

    Also made use of the old coil holes on the fan shroud to mount cable grommets for my new crank pully sensor wire. Not the ideal place to run it for looks, but better then two old holes on display.

    So not a massive amount done, but hopefully a best practice method to do it.
    IMG_13092019_193122_(3000_x_1458_pixel).jpg IMG_13092019_193158_(3000_x_1458_pixel).jpg IMG_13092019_193225_(1458_x_3000_pixel).jpg IMG_13092019_193247_(1458_x_3000_pixel).jpg
     
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  3. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

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  4. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,474
    Location:
    newcastle
    Tidy & loving it:).
    Cheers
     
  5. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    17,794
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Doesn’t look very professional at all..................................................... way too neat, tidy & caring. ;)
     
    OSF likes this.
  6. KahunaKombi

    KahunaKombi Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    22,192
    Location:
    Bracken Ridge, Qld
    May have missed it :rolleyes: .... how did you go with the crank pulley :confused:
     
  7. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Managed to get it sitting home the whole way. But was not happy with the amount of thread on the pully bolt. So bought a longer bolt from micks motors. All fitted and torqued upto 35pound as per my haynes manual.

    But the sensor for this kit sits on a bracket attached to the case stud behind the pully. The bracket the kit came with meant the sensor sat 5mm away not the prescribed 0.5mm.

    Spoke with Joe Blow about it, and Mick made a modified bracket up that day and posted it up. He made it 5mm larger which meant the sensor was touching the trigger ring on the pulley. So i shaved a bit off the back edge. And it appeared to be perfect. Hard to see back there so I put some painters tape on the sensor face and turned the motor over to make sure it was not fowling. Then torqued the case stud upto 14 pound.
    So all sorted now. Great service from Mick.

    While I think of it, I cannot find a torque setting for the alternator pulley nut. I just did this to 25 pound. Felt about right.
     
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  8. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Managed to get the bus fired up yesterday. Running too hot and my timing light is firing at BDC not TDC.
    So went to shut it off and the bus kept running.
    I pulled the positive connection off the battery hoping it would stop. It did not so i re-engaged the starter motor and stalled it.

    So now I have the following questions.

    1- What do I need to find that sends a signal to shut the bus off? I thought the signal wire I found from the ignition would do both.

    2- Is there a better way to force a shut down? I wondered if clamping the fuel line before the fuel pump would work? Or is it electrical related.
     
  9. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,441
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Do you mean running nice or stumbling on?

    If “stumbling on” then that is timing issues.
    If running nice that’s the electronics
     
  10. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
    Brisbane
    It sounded a little rough in general. So I think timing is slightly off.
    But it just kept running like i had not turned the key off.
    When I limped home after the breakdown, when I turned the key off the bus would take 10 seconds to turn off. Some googling then made me think that the carbs might be the culprits then. But they had not been touched to create the issue so I hoped it would correct itself with the new ignition system.

    Timing was reading 5 degree advanced (but fr o m bottom dead centre).
    I think pobjoy motors are supposed to be 7 degree advanced.
     
  11. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
    Brisbane
    I got this responce from Mick about the timing.
    But i need to work oyt the shutting down of the motor before I try it.

    I would not think that the engine would run with the timing 180 degrees out. If the engine is running, then I think that you have everything correct and we are just looking at a tuning / setup issue, but we can run through a few tests to eliminate other potential problems.

    Usually the stronger strobe signal is the TDC signal with a weaker secondary signal sometimes visible on BDC, This ‘echo’ is just a characteristic of this type of coil pack and is usually just induced voltage from the adjacent channel. Whilst it may trigger a strobe, It should not be a high enough voltage to actually create a spark. When I bench tested the unit there was no crossover apparent between channels and each spark was separate as expected, but this is only a visual test.

    A quick and easy test to conduct would be simply swapping the plug leads over on the coils (Chan1 <> Chan2). I think that the worst that will happen is that the engine will simply not start, which may also be accompanied by a backfire. If the engine does actually start and runs better and the exhaust temp is lowered then it is indicating that the two channels may indeed have been swapped. I don’t expect this to be the case, but in doing this test we can prove / eliminate this.

    Generally hot running indicates that the timing is incorrect and usually too far retarded (spark is happening too late in the cycle and the burn is still occurring whilst exhaust gasses are exiting the cylinder). This could be due to a difference between the physical trigger angle and the trigger angle programmed into the ECU. However, this difference would have to be fairly substantial for such an effect and is unusual given that there is limited adjustment on the sensor, with a deviation of a few degrees being more usual. However I guess it could also manifest if the firing was indeed 180 out, if indeed the engine would run in this condition.

    Some other things that are worth checking are as follows:
    • Check the tooth log in Tuner Studio to make sure that you are getting a clean reliable signal from the trigger wheel. If there are dropped pulses and you are not getting a reliable signal, then the timing will be affected and it is possible to get spurious ignition events. It’s worthwhile ruling this out before investing too much time in other areas, especially as we had to put together a ‘custom’ trigger sensor bracket. If you are getting an unreliable signal, check the sensor spacing against each tooth (just visually check it as you rotate the crank by hand) and make sure that the centre of the sensor points towards the centre of the tooth. If the gaps are good but you have variation in the trigger signal, try adjusting the sensor location slightly and see if the signal improves.
    • Check how much of a gap you have with the end-float at each extent of it’s travel (push / pull the crank pulley and check gap at each location). If the crank is allowing the trigger wheel to float away from the sensor when running, this can cause trigger signal drop outs.
    • Check the difference between the measured timing mark and expected timing mark when using the strobe. Even if you see the BDC mark instead of the TDC mark, it will be exactly 180 degrees out from the TDC ignition event, so you can still use it to set / confirm your tooth angle and update the trigger angle in Tuner Studio.
    • Once the trigger angle is confirmed and the trigger angle in Tuner Studio updated, reenable the dynamic timing and then compare displayed advance versus measured advance. You should see an idle timing of somewhere around 8 degrees.
    The engine overrunning is an unrelated issue. Assuming that the ECU power is correctly switched, it is to do with feedback from your alternator keeping the ECU alive. If the motor does not shut off, remove the alternator charging light on the dash and see if it then shuts off, or try a simple test without that bulb plugged in. If it fixes the issue, you’ll need to add a diode on the charging light. The solution is to install a 1N4001 diode with banded end towards alternator in that wire. I can send you one of these if you cannot locate one locally
     
  12. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Is your ecu powered through a relay
    if so check to make sure terminal 30 is power and 87 goes to the ecu.
    some relays latch on if you put the wires on opposite
    easy to test, voltmeter (or globe) pos to the terminal that leads to the ecu. neg to earth.
    ignition on should have 12v
    ignition off should be 0v
     
  13. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I will check. But I did double check that before powering up.
    One thing I was uncertain about was the existing wires.
    There was one black wire that came out of the loom and was previously connected to the + Side of the coil pack. No power when ignition is off. Power when ignition turned to accessory.
    There was another wire I was uncertain off, but based on the colour of the wire I think it is my Tacho. I have not connected it yet incase it is not.

    So i have done the following.

    Power out of the battery. To a 23amp fuse.
    Power run into relay # 30.
    Power run out of Relay # 87 (split into 3) into fuse box. Then fused and runs to the ECU power, and the 2 Coil powers provided with the ECU Loom.
    The existing wire that I have assumed is the ignition wire runs to Relay #85.

    I have not connected any other existing wires. Is it fair to assume that there should only be the one wire from the ignition?
    I cannot understand why it would not want to shut down once the ignition is off.
    And I am a bit shared to fire it up again now that is has happened incase I cannot stop it again.
     
  14. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    do the test I mentioned at the relay. You don't need to start the engine.
    This will rule out the relay and ignition switch.
     
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  15. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

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    I certainly will.
    I had a quick look tonight. There is a red and a black cable coming out of the top of the alternator. But it appears to run towards the front of the bus. I need to track them when I have a spare 20 minutes because the black I have attached to the relay is the same cable size. And I also have a spare red from the original coil that I have not identified.

    Half of the problem is this is the most technical mechanical thing I have done. Big learning curves happening.
     
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  16. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,474
    Location:
    newcastle
    On the upside Brad you'll be able to be your own 'roadside assist' after this learning curve;).
    Cheers
     
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  17. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

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    Thats the hope of it all.
     
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  18. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

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    Is it fair to assume that a test light like this would work for this test? https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/toledo-toledo-heavy-duty-circuit-tester---6v-12v-24v/305190.html
    Seems to be the standard form that I can find. I will pick one up today to give it a try.
     
  19. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,617
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    That'll do the job
    You can get a multimeter from Jaycar for about the same
     
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  20. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,600
    Location:
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    Thank you. I have an SCA multi meter. I will test with that - Only just starting to learn to use it. Found the setting for 12 volt finally after googling the instructions.
     

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