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Flush oil before change?

Discussion in 'Engine & Transmission' started by Graham Hoyle, May 22, 2016.

  1. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Hi,

    I'm just about to have a crack at doing my first oil change on Mintie As I am unsure when the last oil service was carried out, would it be advisable to flush the engine with a suitable product before droping the oil?

    Thanks

    Graham
     
  2. Dubman

    Dubman Well-Known Member

    If the engine is new, or as new rebuilt recently, I would say a flush is fine, however there is a number of people out there that say a flush in older worn engines can clean a little too well and what was being held back by carbon etc could be unleashed. Other more mechanically trained people may say otherwise.
    I never ran a flush in mine, however It was a rebuilt motor and had regular oil changes every 5,000ks so rarely got too dirty or sludgy
     
  3. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,499
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Oil filter and oil change should flush a you drive. A few oil changes and it will clean up. Engine warm when you change oil.. Mind your fingers!
     
  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Yep.
    My pick is clean gently on an old motor or one you dont know its history.
    If its been sitting a while or is crap I would do first change of both after 100 km ( a cheap oil n warm up then dump if the oil that comes out is realy bad) then 500 or 1000 if it darkens up in that time.
     
  5. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    OK, Thanks fellas.

    I'll give it a go tomorrow.
     
  6. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Well the oil change went ok, sort of.

    Had a bit of trouble removing the oil screen cover, did not know how much force to use, but eventually got it off.

    Changed the oil filter, oil screen and oil. Did not appear to be any leaks.

    Took it for a drive and after a couple of Klm the oil pressure light came on. Big panic, had the oil screen cover come loose? I did not have a torque wrench so was unsure how tight was 9 ft/lb.

    A few drops of oil leaking from the screen cover (hot oil?), so I decided to turn for home. Oil light off for a few minutes, then back on so I stopped again. Loosened the nut on the screen cover a bit and carried on home. Oil light did not come on.

    I have to take it to the mechanic tomorrow for a few other issues so I will ask him to check the torque on the Screen cover nut. Never had an instance where the oil light came on before. Something I did?

    Checked the oil on the dipstick, not the nice honey brown colour of the Penrite I put in so I will do a couple of oil changes in the next week with some el chepo oil to see if it clears up.
     
  7. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,499
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    New gaskets on the oil screen cover? 9 psi is not very tight. Over tightening mat strip thread.
    May be oil is not as thick as old gunk. What grade did you use?? Cannot see how nut tension would impact on oil light??
    Light on at idle and/or higher revs??
     
  8. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Yeah.
    Be careful not to overtighten screen bolt or the drain bolt.
    Hold hand over the ratchet part so that you dont over do it.
    Major mongrel if you break where it screws into.

    Wouldbe tempted tostick with the penrite 30 for changes.
    Next one shouldnt dirty as quick as this one will be diluting what was remaining.
    Means same balance of oil chemistry and detergents.
    Probably a bit anal but only the cost of one change involved realy.

    Oil light is a concern .
    As Al said. Only on idle when dropping from revs ? Or with revs and load ?

    Check connections on pressure sender
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  9. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Hi Apal & Cbus,

    I used Penrite HPR30 (20W60) with a new strainer and gaskets. The oil light comes on at startup then goes out after a short idle period. That would be normal I guess.

    Just this morning taking the kombi to the mechanic, approx. 6 klm from home, the oil light came on twice then went out after a short period, say 30 seconds to a minute (just enough time for me to fill my jocks).

    While the oil light was on, I noticed a definite change in engine sound, a little bit louder than normal. Mechanic will check tension on the nuts but I was wary of overtightening.

    Can't understand what might have changed as no oil light issues before oil change. Should the strainer gaskets be installed dry or should they be lubricated? Could find no information on this.
     
  10. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    30 seconds is far too long.
    Usualygoes off while cranking or within a second once running.
    Pays to fill oil filter toprevent prolonged lack ofpressure whenchanging oil.
    If this isnt done it still should stll kill light withi about 8 sec on first startup.
    The addition of differing engine sound seems to suggest an actual low pressure rather than a sensor fault.

    I dont expect it to be related to gasket in any way.

    Sounds strange.

    Mechanic is on site so hopfuly he will be able to check more details than our guessing.

    Cant think of anything other than blocked pickup.
    Sticking pressure control valves.


    Actualy.
    First check would be oil filter.?
    All postulating tho.
    Any remote oilcoolers?
    Oil level is correct and total fill was over 3 litres?
     
  11. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    It was a new Bosch oil filter ordered from VW parts supplier.
    No remote oil coolers.
    Believe oil level to be correct. Would have put in 3 to 3.5 liters, did not measure. I will next time. Not sure if the dip stick is original, it had 4 marks on it but the top two seemed to be ground out. Lower mark is about 1 cm from end of dip stick, top mark is about 3cm from end of dipstick. I'll be replacing it with a more accurate one asap.
    Not sure if my mechanic will have much knowledge of VW's, he's not old enough :)
     
  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Oil nfilter sound ok.
    Dipstick doesnt
    Lack of experience is scary.

    Illmeasure a dipstick.
     
  13. Alpal

    Alpal Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,499
    Location:
    Melbourne Bend of Islands
    Know anyone you can compare dippy sticky with??
     
  14. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    From flange /stop near handle to bottom end
    290mm
    From other end. Ie from bottom of dipstick up to lower mark. 48mm
    Gap to upper mark . additional 12mm
     
  15. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Lack of experience is scary, me or the mechanic ( or both).
    When I get the Kombi back this afternoon I'll measure dipstick markings again. I'm sure I measured only 3 cm (30mm) from bottom of stick to top mark but that is only half of what you have measured 6 cm (60mm).
    Maybe problem is simply not enough oil if dipstick is not reading correctly. The marks that appear to be erased are about the same as you describe from memory but I"ll recheck when I get her back.
     
  16. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Na , lack of experience on the mechanic.
    With issues like this you need them to mentaly cover all areas.
    Thats not in the job description for many and a lack of experience can mean they havent learnt that they dont know yet.

    Check your oil container to estimate how much you have put in.

    Did light come on on corners?

    I would strongly suggest dont drive it home till issue is sorted and oil level established fairly accurately .

    Cross check.
    Type 4 motor
    Dipstick .from stop at handle end to upper/ full mark. 228mm
    Min level is 12mm below that. Or 240mm.
     
  17. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Thanks Cbus, you're being too generous.
    Older age has not got a lot going for it, I just remembered the engine I purchased with the donor Kombi.
    I've been out to retrieve the dip stick from that one and the measurements are exactly as you specify. So I will check my dipstick later this afternoon to confirm the markings.
    I have a sinking feeling that I have been wasting the forum's time with this one. I reckon the dipstick is incorrectly marked or the wrong one for my Kombi.
    And yes, as I recall, the light did come on while cornering, but also on the straight as well.

    Unfortunately, I used a part open oil container so can't confirm for sure how much went in.

    I will drain oil when I get home and start again. Take your point about checking level before I drive home.

    Thanks
    Graham
     
  18. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    I couldn't wait the get the Kombi back to check dipstick measurements, they won't be finished until tomorrow and I want to be able to sleep tonight.
    So I got them to measure the markings. 11mm from bottom of stick to low mark, 29mm from bottom of stick the high mark. That is way out!!!!
    No wonder oil light came on, not enough oil. To be confirmed of course. I feel like a bit of a dill.
    Valuable lesson learned however. Measure the amount of oil when filling so there is no room for error.
     
  19. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,830
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The important issue would be how far down from the TOP.
    Measured from underneath edge of 'flange'
    Unless it is confirmed that the length of dipstick from top flange to bottom of stick is same as correct.

    Not uncommon for butchery to have taken place and incorrect parts substituted.

    Never a waste of time.
    Surprising how many small details discussed also assist others at some stage.

    If you have a correct dipstick just rely on that and dont worry about draining oil to measure.

    Being shallow sumps, its necessary to ensure measuring while on a flat surface.
     
  20. Graham Hoyle

    Graham Hoyle Active Member

    Messages:
    108
    Location:
    Bowen
    Measurements of the of the "new" stick are exactly as per specifications, top & bottom, so I will rely on that.
    Thanks for all advice and apologies. Hope this thread is of some use to others with a similar issue.
     
    JdogsKombi likes this.

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