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Installing a BlazeCut fire suppression system

Discussion in 'Engine & Transmission' started by jobell, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. Ninga

    Ninga Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,211
    Location:
    Tumut
    Glad Miss D is staying with you Jo! A BlazeCut does seem almost essential. We'd better talk more seriously about purchasing for Vera I think. ;)
     
  2. oldman

    oldman Super Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,232
    Location:
    Avalon Beach NSW
    A bit like insurance Chrissy......you hope you never have to use it...;)
    Cheers,
    Mark
     
    Ninga likes this.
  3. jobell

    jobell Active Member

    Messages:
    579
    Location:
    Walwa, Victoria
    Got mine from expengineering.com.au. I think they are the distributor for VIC? Happy to reccomend, very helpful and prompt dispatch.
     
    Ninga likes this.
  4. steve_4802

    steve_4802 Active Member

    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Any idea what insurances thoughts on these are? I was going to call Shannons just to check before installing. Would hate for it to go off and make a hell of a mess (while saving the bus) and then the insurer not covering the damage...
     
  5. steve_4802

    steve_4802 Active Member

    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Ideas on 2m or 3m as well? I expect big is beautiful in this instance, or is the 3m a lot to fit in and more than you need?
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

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    13,362
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The advantage of the blazecut is its a gas that's in liquid form while contained . As far as Im aware it does not leave any residue.
    Unlike powder extinguishers.

    Only issue I would have is don't breath it in.
     
    oldman likes this.
  7. steve_4802

    steve_4802 Active Member

    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Didn't know it worked like that, thanks cbus. What about 2m vs 3m? What have others typically gone with?
     
  8. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,562
    Location:
    newcastle
    Hi Steve,
    I got the 3 metre & son in law also expressed concerns about toxicity & effects on wiring etc.
    Box it came in said "just vent the space after use". No further action required! But like all insurance companies they should be aware so they have no excuse to reject the other claim (as in "we won't pay for the prang because you have an after market addition we were not aware of" ). How they mix fire suppression with an accident escapes me:rolleyes: other than to deny liability.:mad:
    About 2/3rd down on this page
    http://forums.kombiclub.com/threads/76-sopru-resto.54261/page-11
    Fully endorse them.:)
    Cheers
     
    Grantus likes this.
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,362
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I havent fitted one.
    Need to pull finger.
    2 metre should be adequate according to blurbs .
    Many have gone 3 for some extra insurance.
    They have mentioned extra effort to fit the longer one but do able.

    Either would be that essential early suppression and apparently the noise is sufficient that driver notices so IF it wasn't enough then can be backed up with extinguisher but I would only expect that if there was a lot of fuel underneath.

    If you have an electric pump it is essential to have a tachometric relay to cut power. Should include the fuel shutoff as well.

    I was concerned about the potential toxicity due to the similarity to halon but chatted to Mark ( oldman. Experienced in such matters) about it and have no concerns.

    But would beware breathing in the gas because of how it works.
    Once ventilated no issue.
    If it goes off first thing would be get any kids out of car and upwind anyway regardless of any concerns.
    Any burning materials such as plastics are not good.
    Inhaling gas would likely cause breathing difficulties.
    Google the gas.
     
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  10. melissa

    melissa Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,530
    Location:
    Newcastle NSW
    I informed Shannons when I installed it - if anything, they should give a reduction as it is like fitting an anti-theft device - the idea behind them is stopping the fire and damage as quickly as possible.
     
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  11. Squidy

    Squidy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,739
    Location:
    Eumundi
    Worth while piece of kit, install in a split.... cable tie it to whatever you can ! Have 2m and 3m , 3m harder to install due to length but not too much of a drama and a little more coverage
     
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  12. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,562
    Location:
    newcastle
    Glad the engines down the back.;)
    Cheers
     
  13. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,562
    Location:
    newcastle
    Given what I saw in my 82 carb fire & my 94 F/i fire I bought the extra metre.:D More coverage over the centre where the cold start valve of a F/i is (& the dissy & the etc)
    Cheers
     
  14. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,605
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Insurance will be happy. Even if you have a power or foam extinguisher that made a hell of a mess and damaged paint work, it is still cheaper to fix then the fire that would make a mess, damage paint work and warp panels.
    Also these will only go off once the flame is on them, the hose melts at about 114degrees from memory, flames are going to be hot enough to damage paint work in the time it takes to set the blaze cut off.

    Also in my opinion go the 3m. I shipped a few 2m length ones in from the states before the was an Aussie Distributor not knowing about the 3m ones.
    I cover my engine well in 2 runs, but I also run dual batteries. So the extra m would allow good coverage of both batteries and the fuel filler location.
    Because if a battery goes whilst not driving then there would be no wind resistance and the flames could go straight up the side vents causing a lot of panel damage before the blazecut melted and burst.

    Not sure if Indian Auto has them, but wen I got mine from JOGR they came with a 12volt fuel solenoid. When you turn your ignition off a ram closes and shuts off the fuel supply if you run a pump. I have not fitted mine as I run a mechanical pump. But I still have it if I ever feel like hiding a switch for a security fuel shut off (even though most classic car thefts are tilt tray jobs).
     
    Sahara Hilton likes this.
  15. steve_4802

    steve_4802 Active Member

    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    Ordered my Blaze Cut today and also put the questions to Shannons, my insurer. Interesting and not idea response that seems to state any damage caused by the fire suppression system won't be covered by insurance - bummer. So as far as I can tell if you have a fire and starts to burn causing say $5k worth of damage before the unit goes off that perhaps causes another $2k in mess / damage, the insurer would likely only cover the $5k. Never mind the fact that without it there would be a $50k write off... Grrr, will further discuss with Shannons but not sure I'll get too much of a win. It's frustrating when you're reducing overall risk to the insurer but ultimately the insured will be partly out of pocket or risk partly compromising the cover in some other way.

    Shannons said:
    "We are happy to cover this item as an accessory on your vehicle in the event it is damaged in an accident, however deployment of the device would not be classed as an insurable event and therefore not covered. Essentially, any damage this device does will be as a result of its' deployment, and not the accident itself- we will only repair damage as the result of the accident.
    Additionally, the retardant used to extinguish the flames may cause additional damage to electrical and braking systems, or mechanical failure if ingested into the engine. Such damage would possibly have been avoided if the device were not fitted in the first place.
    Malfunction/accidental or inadvertent deployment would not be covered either as mechanical failure is excluded under our policy.

    It's a bit of a tricky one as the device sounds great in theory (both for yourself and for us)."
     
  16. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,094
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    So without it, if a fire truck swamps your burning bus with retardant foam, they won't cover any damage done by the emergency services either? o_O
     
  17. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,362
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Don't worry.
    It is the case that only items damaged in the accident are covered.
    Ie you rear end someone and dont realise you have damaged radiator.
    Run engine and damage head.
    Head damage is a secondary event and not covered.

    In your case I believe the blazecut should be covered as it is a notified item.
    But any damage it caused would be secondary.

    But I cannot see how it can cause any damage.
    Check MSDS


    They are just covering their butt which is normal.

    I don't see any potential issue other than someone working inside engine bay damaging the blazecut and receiving cold burns or asphyxiation.
    Something insurance says they will not cover.

    Curious as to if that would hold up in court.
     
  18. steve_4802

    steve_4802 Active Member

    Messages:
    272
    Location:
    Sunshine Coast
    I've sought further clarification as follows and will keep all posted as I think it's quite pertinent. My main concern is if it were to deploy it may be argued wiring damage etc. (for example) may have been due to deployment of the system not the fire. anyway, here is what I've since sent off; hopefully get a good outcome.

    "I'm very disappointed to hear that a device from a reputable manufacturer of industrial and automotive fire suppression systems will not be covered by Shannons. Classic cars such as a 1975 VW are a notably higher risk to fire than later vehicles and an understanding of such is one of the reasons I've elected staying with Shannons for nearly five years without question. By installing this system I am considerably reducing the total fire risk to the Insurer (valued at approx. $45k) by installing this system.

    Owing to the considerably reduced risk to the Insurer surely this can be further considered? I appreciate more information may be necessary and I am happy to work with the supplier / manufacturer to secure any test details, case studies etc., that may prove the reliability of the system.

    In the event of faulty deployment i.e. system malfunction, I am happy if Shannons may wish to exclude cover for damage in this event. However, I would like Shannons to insure against any damage caused (by both fire and fire suppression system's deployment) in the event that it correctly deploys in the event of any fire, likely saving the car from complete $45k loss. Again, I would be most eager to seek any further information from the supplier to confirm suitability of the system.

    Alternatively, if Shannons can recommend a more preferred fire suppression system then I am happy to utilise this preferred system instead."
     
    Grantus likes this.
  19. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,605
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Who cares even if it is not covered. If you get rear ended and it goes off the rear ending would be big enough to drive something through it and your stuffed anyways.
    If it goes off for fire the whole idea is protection of life. If it buys you enough time to pull over safely, get family and pets out of the car safely. Job done. If that then leads to an argument with the insurer, whoever is repainting your bus would have to prep the paint anyways, therefore cleaning done.
    If your engine does injest it, then it may need a rebuild, but cheaper to rebuild an engine then a life.
     
  20. Wattie

    Wattie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,251
    Location:
    Mildura. Victoria. Australia.
    I don't give a toss regarding the get out of jail manoeuvrings of "insurance" companies, its for my benefit. I installed a 3 metre unit in my T3 as well as a fuel pump impact cut out switch.
    [​IMG]
    The impact switch is the black box next to the circuit breakers it has a large heavy ball bearing resting in the centre of an inverted cone, its weight is holding a micro switch closed, once activated by a sudden stop the ball moves off the switch and is blocked from reseating until the manual reset button is lifted allowing the bearing to reset, simple, automatic and works in any plane, ie side, rear impact.
    [​IMG]
     
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