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Late bay front torque arm inner bush

Discussion in 'Steering, brakes & Suspension' started by rstucke, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Hi guys
    I've got a 2ltr 1979 bay with worn inner bushes and inner torque arm bosses.
    Been able to find good 2nd hand torque arms but not bushes. Needle rollers are still available.
    Does anyone know if the inner suspension bush is still available and where. A part number would be handy too.
    I've searched every where I know but no luck.
    Failing that does any body know the exact dimensions of this sucker so as I can make it. I've made a tool to remove the bush but I know it will be slightly mangled and not measurable when it comes out.
    What does every body do in this situation? Surely this suspension system doesn't last forever?
    Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for any information.
     
    Pisces likes this.
  2. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
  3. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,046
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    most people are oblivious to the worn bushes and the wear on the arm.
    and yes, most are worn to varying degree.
    As far as I know there are no replacements.
    There is a full nylon type replacement. Ian[tin bits has fitted some so hopefuly will post a link.
    my guess is some turned out of brass should do the trick ?
     
  4. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

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    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
    David H and cbus like this.
  5. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Splitbus and Cbus
    Thanks for a reply, ordering bushes from cip1.
    There were part numbers on the bushes when I removed them that line up to the ones that cip1 have.
    I'll be ordering them today.
    The lower bushes were in pretty bad shape
    I'll try and post pics P1190416.jpg P1190418.jpg P1190419.jpg P1190420.jpg P1190422.jpg P1190423.jpg
     
  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,046
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    the wear is probably representative of about 25% of the sample ive seen . about 50% of that wear is another 25%. only got out about 25% that could be regarded as close to untouched.
    Like your puller.
    Was removal with it easy enough?
     
  7. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    I ended up removing all 4 bushes (top ones weren't too bad). The puller was a pusher I guess and the bearings came out easy but were pretty tight in there. I was worried that the plastic sleeve they were in might come out but it didn't. The bump stop snout held the beam off the floor level with the jig I've got it bolted to so there was plenty of clearance. Half a dozen wacks with a lump hammer and they were out. The centre support for the torsion bar limits the size of the long rod, I used 25mm brass rod I had and I don't think you could feed much larger through. Interestingly the bush is made of steel with about 0.5mm copper inlay and a Teflon coating over that. I think my forefathers knew that grease wasn't going to go through the bush properly (no spiral) to lubricate it. I also noticed that the 2nd hand replacement arms had witness marks that showed a much wider bush. Wonder is that an earlier version? Hardly any wear on the arms so might have been a better arrangement.
    Cheers
     
  8. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Nice work
     
  9. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Got the parts yesterday (very quick from cip1.
    The front end bits were pretty grotty so decided to spend the day cleaning them up.
    Going on hols for 2 weeks down far south coast and reassembling when I get back.
    Paint should have dried by then.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Ok back from hols.
    I coated the inside of the tubes with Lanolin before I went on hols. There was hardly any rust but don't want any in the future.
    I don't think these beams like creek crossings (where they get submerged).
    Finished yesterday by coating the tubes with chassis grease using a bottle brush smothered in grease. (worked pretty good.

    I made some drivers for the bushes and needle bearings.
    Unfortunately the bearings don't butt up to stops so I had to build them into the drifts (took all day to make) so that they sit in the correct spot.
    Anyway they went in pretty easy
    P2090052.jpg P2090054.jpg P2090055.jpg P2090056.jpg P2090057.jpg P2090058.jpg P2090059.jpg P2100061.jpg P2100065.jpg
     

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  11. Marlyn

    Marlyn Active Member

    Messages:
    917
    Location:
    Eleebana / Newcastle
    I know it is after the event now ,.....I think Stockers have replacement bushes available .
    FYI cheers!
     
  12. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Thanks Mark & Linder good to know for the future although I'm not sure I'll ever have to do a beam again.
    Not sure which Stockers (could only find an out door power equip place in Newie.

    Progress over the last couple of days.
    Firstly disaster. Cracked torsion leaves. It took a day of searching and 4 sets of springs to build up the 2 that I needed to fit the beam.
    P2110077.jpg
    P2110078.jpg
    Something interesting, the welded end had the most cracked leaves. Not sure wether because not allowing the outer leaves movement(sliding) in the torque arm (only the inner 3 leaves are held by the grub screw) or because that side is the one that ends up running off the shoulder of the road (pot holes).
    Anyway the welds had to be removed to inspect each leaf an I'm not re welding ( I think it's a mistake to weld in the first place and the end plugs are very thick)

    P2110082.jpg P2110086.jpg P2110090.jpg P2130093.jpg P2130096.jpg
     

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  13. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Very nice
     
  14. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Last post
    Finished the beam with brakes and wheel bearings
    P2180001.jpg P2190004.jpg P2250013.jpg P2250014.jpg

    here's all the replaced parts. Cost more than I thought.
    P2260017.jpg

    Before (sad to say the least)
    P5050207.jpg

    After (looks good enough to use)
    P2260018.jpg
     
  15. Anna Bay 73

    Anna Bay 73 Member

    Messages:
    91
    Location:
    Anna Bay
    Droolling over workshop. Your work shows us hackers how it should be done. I removed my arms to get the ball joints replaced on one side.The weld at the end of the torsion leaves was broken, so I welded it back up because I thought the leaves needed to be held together so the arms would go back on.
    cheers
     
  16. andrew

    andrew Active Member

    Messages:
    371
    Location:
    Richmond
    I found it Rick - as ever great breakdown of process - as with Anna its easy to drool over you workshop and skills!!!
     
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  17. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    Just an update for anyone interested in avoiding wandering steering and a few observations.
    Before my time on vw engines finished with Repco engine reconditioning service in Bankstown I'd driven a number of near new bay window transporters.
    The 2ltr ones were quick compared to the vehicles of the day. They handled exceptionally well compared to other commercial vehicles.
    The repairs I did in this thread along with reconditioning my steering box (see the sticky) have resulted in a well behaved kombi.
    Blitz does not suffer from steering wander.
    Only the biggest side gusts have a small influence on straight line tracking (Blitz tracks better in a straight line than any transporter or panel van I've driven in windy weather)
    Blitz is unaffected by oncoming road trains travelling at 120km/hr plus on narrow roads (Barrier hwy)
    I'm not sure about overtaking semis because we overtake them.
    I did a wheel alignment using traditional gear (Servex bubble gauges, trammels and turn tables) and believe that's all that is necessary.
    So fix your suspension bushes (40 odd years, they've got to be worn out)
    And as a side note there's no way I've found to show how worn they are (levers, jacks etc) because of the preload they are under from the torsion leaves. The reliability of the results are vague at best. The only positive way is to dismantle them and inspect.
    By the way, if your front end is a little low and you haven't lowered it then it hasn't sagged, You've got broken leaves in the bundle that are the torsion bars and your bus will wander!
     
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  18. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,205
    Location:
    newcastle
    @rstucke. Nice thread revival;).
    So why the wander if just sitting lower??
    On my second front beam & it's a bit low & always has been. So was the last one. Maybe wanders but not sure. Tracks pretty good I reckon. Must get you to drive it & your opinion. Got 2 sets of front leaves when I reckon it's time.
    Front gear shaft selector nylon could do with replacement but been driving these for so long they find their own way thru the gearbox;).
    Do you get any wander as you 'punch into/out' of the semis air pocket as you overtake?
    Cheers
     
  19. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,147
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    With broken leaves your suspension becomes softer which allows the weight of the bus to dip side to side more because the sway bars are a bit light on. So punching in and out of air pockets will cause a slight dip left then a slight roll right, you probably won't notice that because your busy correcting the resulting directional control issues with that old white knuckle feeling.
    That's why some notice an improvement when swapping out the front sway bar for a bigger one and or adding a rear one.

    Also with that lowered front attitude you'll have less positive caster (one of the major direction control angles, steering axis inclination being the other one)

    Overtaking semis doesn't affect Blitz at all

    The only time I've noticed any movement from straight ahead (and that was only slight) was traveling south, going into a cutting and being hit by a westerly blast coming out the other side. I'm guessing any van would have felt it.
     
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  20. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,548
    Location:
    Brisbane
    This thread is awesome mate.
    Saved for when I have more time for projects that are not house reno's.
     
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