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Replacement battery

Discussion in 'Fuel System & Electrics' started by Jenny Frappell, May 6, 2019.

  1. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    Thinking about putting a deep cycle marine battery in my 1974.
    The current battery runs too low for the Kombi to start without a hill whenever we work on it, or have the radio on when parked.
    I thought that it might help if I wanted to run a small fridge.
    Has anyone else done this?
     
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  2. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    401
    Location:
    Canberra
    Deep cycle batteries aren't usually used as starting batteries.

    You could consider a starting battery as well as a deep cycle ((absorbed glass matt (AGM) is good)) with an isolator ((voltage sensitive relay (VSR))....the isolator will charge both batteries ((after the starting battery reaches a set point (usually 12.8v)) but will stop your fridge (connected to the 'house battery') from draining the starting battery. I've used Matson and Projecta VSRs with no problems.

    Patrick
     
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  3. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,532
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    As tintop said....

    Starter and deep cycle batteries are built different to do best at what they are designed for.

    I would suggest getting biggest starting battery possible to give plenty of reserve for starting in event of a starting problem.
    It will still be ok for SHORT periods of additional light accessory loads such as day trips with radio or small Waeco type fridge. Not overnighters.

    Any more than that it is best to have a dedicated deep cycle battery.
    Starter battery will fail early if it is flattened often.
    Naturally, both batteries will work in both roles but they won't last or perform as well as if used as designed.

    There are dual purpose batteries but I don't know if they are effective at both functions or a marketing ploy. Do some searches.
    There are also batteries that would do as you want but a different chemistry and a bit more complicated for charging so I would suggest sticking to flooded cel or AGM lead acid for your purpose.

    Ensure that you do not leave ignition on to run acessories while engine not running.
    The coil may overheat and fail.
    Run a separate outlet.

    Supercharge batteries are ok and often on sale at 25-30% off at auto outlets.
    Recently purchased a 650cca supercharge (silver/gold? ) For $114 which was a bargain.
     
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  4. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,532
    Location:
    sunshine coast
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  5. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    Thanks. A friend suggested a bigger battery, and my mechanic the deep cycle battery. Was hoping to get away with the one battery and make Bindi more reliable. I will ban the husband from having the radio on while fixing other things...... maybe a second battery in the future.
     
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  6. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,532
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    The reliability issue is likely just that the battery is at end of its life.
    Either old or it has been cycled/ flattened a few times plus possibly left flat for a while.
    Could have been at any point in its life.

    That's where a bigger battery helps.
    Beside a bigger reserve it's being cycled less each time as a percentage of its capacity.

    There are 2 sets of numbers to check.
    CCA is cranking amps.
    How much it delivers for starting.
    Minimum being about 400, better is 500, I would go 600-650. Heaps for if you have flooded the car etc and fits easily in a Kombi.
    A 700+ gets a tight fit as outside dimensions increase each step up in capacity.
    But I have fitted a 700+.
    650 is heaps tho.

    The other is Amps . As in the capacity or" total volume"
    A lot of starting batteries are around 50 amps.
    Deep cycle are chosen for capacity so usually a 100-120 is biggest that fits with a bit of work for the bigger one due to dimensions.

    A starter battery doesn't like being drained much.
    A deep cycle can go to 30% remaining without issues.
    But the less each is cycled/ drained the better it lasts.

    The dual purpose linked above has both good cranking and capacity for its size. 600CCA, 85AMPS.
    The construction does assist both functions.
    Given the extra capacity I see no issue other than monitoring levels to ensure you can start in the morning.
    A one night stay and cold fridge on departure should have a good margin of safety.

    Other brands will have similar models.
    Check polarity on terminals are correct.
    Wrong way around and it's easy to connect wrong which burns alternator out very quickly.
    Price reasonable for its dual abilities.
    A starter batt is normally that price.

    A radio at reasonable volume isn't too bad.
    A big pumping stereo can pull a lot of amps.
    The specs will be on a label on the unit.
    Similarly , a small 12,240 V fridge draws stuff all in one day if it's cooled on 240V first and everything is already cold. Probably max of 2 Amps per hr.

    Don't run a 3 way fridge off a battery while camped.
    It draws too much current.
    Ok while driving but use gas if camped.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    11,532
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    • Comparisons.
    Standard dimensions. 80 amp.
    https://www.autobarn.com.au/all-rounder-battery-mrv50-650cca

    Will fit ok. Heavy to fit. Limits access to tail light bulb changes. 105 amp.
    https://www.autobarn.com.au/all-rounder-battery-mrv70l-760cca

    Either with do both jobs well.
    Should come up on sale at some stage.
    Usually 25-30% off.
    Autobarn, Repco, Supercheap.
    Repco often high retail price . Don't think they stock supercharge.
    Supercharge are good on warranty backup .
    These only have 12 months vs up to 40 mth on gold start batteries.
    Yellow n blue century batteries made in Au if that's an issue.
     
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  8. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    Thanks for all of that advise. I have an electrician (old school) doing a few tidy up jobs for me today and he is going to put the 650 in for me. I know I should wait for a special, but he has a 650 for $220 which matches up with your prices. (Much thanks for listing them). I just have a small Eski for the Kombi at the moment. We do have a Waeco 2 way fridge for longer trips. I will remember your good advise for travelling with it. Thanks from the chilly south coast.
     
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  9. drivesafe

    drivesafe Active Member

    Messages:
    123
    Hi Jenny, make sure you have some way of monitoring your battery while the motor is off and you are running accessories, like your fridge.

    You can safely discharge your battery down to 12.0v ( 50% SoC or 50% or your battery’s capacity).

    You can use a digital multi meter, or a very handy device is a BM2, a Bluetooth battery monitor, which you can get off eBay for less then $35.

    A BM2 simply bolts to your battery’s terminals and that’s all the installation required.

    You can them monitor your battery’s voltage via your mobile phone, plus you can set alarm indicators, that will warn you if your battery is getting to what ever voltage level you set the alarm for.

    The BM2 has a lot of other useful features as well being a voltage monitor.

    These are great devices for monitoring batteries in vehicles that are only driven periodically.
     
  10. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    I will look into that. It sounds very useful. A more reliable bus makes me more confident to drive longer distances on my own. It is my daily drive so it gets driven regularly.
     
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  11. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,395
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Thanks for the reminder. Something I’ve been meaning to do, so I’ve just ordered a pair. :)
     
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  12. SunnyJim

    SunnyJim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    carindale Brisbane
    Screenshot_20190509-121353_eBay.jpg Jenny
    Drive Safe has a good idea measuring voltage directly at the battery but I use these that plug into a cigarette lighter , usb 12 volt meter.
    No wiring just plug into your ciggy lighter . It will measure lightly lower than yr battery terminal voltage but you will soon get to know what normal is.
     
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  13. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    That looks inexpensive. Thanks SunnyJim. It will be useful in the Prado as well. I like how it has dual USB ports too.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  14. SunnyJim

    SunnyJim Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,475
    Location:
    carindale Brisbane
    Welcome jenny

    Just remember it will be something like this....
    If you measure your battery voltage at the battery terminal at idle it may read 14.2 to 14.5volts, the cigarette lighter is further away and will read 13v. So you see a voltage drop of 1.2volts due to the resistance of the kombi copper wiring.

    That is ok, if sudden the cig lighter reads 10 or 11volts you know you have a problem
     
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  15. drivesafe

    drivesafe Active Member

    Messages:
    123
    Hi again Jenny, and there is a huge difference between the BM2 units and the cigarette plug volt meters.

    The BM2 gives you permanent readings while drawing very little power even when you are parked, while those LED devices should only be used while the motor is running because they draw a continuous current to power the LED display.

    Have a look at the info about the BM2 monitors, as I posted above, they have lots of other features.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
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  16. Jenny Frappell

    Jenny Frappell Active Member

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Bulli Beach
    Thanks for that. Are they ok in the cigarette plug that is only on when the engine is running? I have one hard wired and one not.
     
  17. drivesafe

    drivesafe Active Member

    Messages:
    123
    Hi Jenny, the one powered only while motor is running, is fine.

    The other one should be removed when you are not using the vehicle, but it will still be useful for keeping an eye on your battery.

    Here is a chart to help you to monitor your battery using the volt meter.

    NOTE, when using your cranking battery to power accessories while the motor is off, try not to allow it to discharge below 11.9v ( 40% SoC )

    1 Small SoC Table.jpg
     
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  18. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,395
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    Arrived in the mail yesterday, so hooked one up on the SC - easy bit! ;)

    Then comes the tech stuff. “Download an App”. :confused:

    Even this Luddite managed it, and better still, it works on my old iPhone 4. (So old, that it’s not secure enough to allow me to get emails anymore).

    But it all works, and I must say, what a great bit of kit! :)

    Cheers drivesafe for the recommendation, and I too, would recommend it to others! ;)
     
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  19. drivesafe

    drivesafe Active Member

    Messages:
    123
    Hi Grantus, the instructions are pretty good for a Chinese product, but they are a little vague on a few points.

    If you need any help, post away and I will see if I can be of assistance.

    You will very quickly see how useful they are and more importantly, how much SAFER they are, because you do not have to watch it while you are driving but can simply read the bata when you get home.

    Have fun with it.
     
  20. Poptop

    Poptop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    829
    Location:
    Clifton Hill, Victoria
    I couldn’t resist either, technology telling me start pushing!
    Thanks drive safe.
     
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