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Some questions about my front beam. 66split with bay beam.

Discussion in 'Splitty Tech Clinic' started by 68BUS, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hello brains trust.
    On the back on my uncommon dizzy thread, I am looking forward to fixing a few things and enjoying the bus again.
    This time it is the front beam. The bus is a 66. But the front end is bay stud pattern and disk brakes. I assume it is a 68 beam, but I do not know for certain.

    The issue is, Driving with 7 people in the bus (all adults and half 100kg), the front wheels were scrubbing wheel arches badly. And when turning the wheels were fowling up on the wheel arches.
    Then lastest road trip with family and camping gear, I did not have the wheels scrubbing on turns, but every bump in the road resulted in the wheels scrubbing against the wheel arch at the top from bounce.

    Resulting in this bare patch in the little expressed lip of the wheel arch.

    [​IMG]

    This is a photo of the drivers side assembely to give and idea of what I am running. I do note that I do not have any bump stops, nor can I see anywhere they might be missing from.

    [​IMG]

    This photo is of the steering dampner and beam taken from the passenger side.

    [​IMG]

    This one is taken of the drivers side from in front. Not sure of member names, But I do note there is a lot of crud built up around the oiled joints.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    This one shows the tie rods. The rubber grommets are perished and there is a stainless steel coil visible in the damaged seal.

    [​IMG]

    This is drivers side, I note that the rubber seals are perished.

    [​IMG]

    And hopefully if this works the following is a youtube video of my passenger shock absorber that I removed. The outside of the casing is old and pitted. And to push it in takes a fair bit of effort. And you can hear the oil gurgling (sounds like it is foaming a bit). and then releasing it, it extends again but slowly.
    I assume it has seen better days.

     
  3. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    So my questions good people are;
    1- Will replacing the shocks fix the issues I am having? Or is the issue got more to do with the amount of travel I am getting?
    2- Should I have bump stops in the setup somehow? If so does anyone recognise this beam and where they should attach to?
    3- To correct this issue, should I raise the beam a spline? The beam has adjusters welded onto the top and bottom tube of the beam.
    4- What else should I correct at the same time?
    - The steering damper seems in working order, but the John Muir guide only mentions this and shocks for this area, so I am assuming it is worth getting a new one. And if so, can I unbolt this while the shock is off the bus so I can take it to Micks Motors and buy a new one? Seems pretty simply but the Muir guide does not give this procedure.
    5- I am also assume that the rubber connections on the tie rods are past their prime. Do I replace these one side at a time? Can you buy just the seals, or do you buy new tie rods?
    6- How concerned should I be about other items such as the rubber boots on the two connection points to the bake of the brake assembly. Should I clean these off and pump some grease into the nipples and get me through the next year and then replace when I have more time, or it is silly not to do it all at once?

    Any advice would be appreciated, this is the first time I have dealt with this part of the bus. Looks pretty neglected to me.
     
  4. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Also, further to the above.
    I assume that the brake pads are okay based on the amount of meat on them (approx. 10mm thick). Is this how you check them, or do I need to pull them out to check?
    [​IMG]
     
  5. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Yes it’s a 68 beam, they are 12.5 mm wider than split beam, from memory
    Try
    raising it will help
    Different ET on wheels, tucking wheels in
    Skinnier tyres
    Gas shocks, steering damper won’t change it
    Loose weight;)

    Your bump stops have been cut off
    Tie rods are cheap and easy to replace but ball joints, you’ll need a shop to do those.
    If you want to do steering damper, just asked Micks for one for a 68
    Pads are ok
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  6. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Hey Mike.
    What is ET on the wheels?

    I must admit, the last time I got tyres on the front, they did look a lot bulkier then I remember the last set being. I will take them down to beaurepairs and see if they can get me in the same diameter in a skinnier version. If not I might change down to a smaller diameter. I have kept the current diameter as I found a golf space saver spare with the same diameter that fits behind the front seats. But I suppose at a pinch, if the tyre repair kit does not work, a slightly different diameter on the front should at least get me to safety if required.

    If it is simple enough I will buy and replace the tie rods and damper all at the same time.

    Do the ball joints look like they need replacement. Is it one of those things, - do them now while I am doing the other works?
    Can get my mechanic to do these for me. Will still save money doing the rest myself, and at least they can check my work to make sure I did not stuff anything up.

    In regards raising the beam a spline, would it be safe to say that I just undo both spline adjustment locking nuts and then lever the beam down away from the floor and then do them up until they are tight again? Or are they supposed to be done to a certain torque or low strength locktight on them.

    Making an adjustment like this (Or any of these items) will require a new wheel alignment and balance won't it?
     
  7. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,289
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    You can pretty much guarantee that the adjusters are seized.
    Case of having the car jacked up and undoing the adjusters with wheels hanging and applying force.
    Best done on a hoist .

    You can maintain overall diameter on wheels by mix n match width/ profile.
    https://tiresize.com/tyre-size-calculator/
    What size tyres currently running?

    But I would advise raising suspension at least an inch and adding bump stops as best and first option if it were a late bay beam but I cannot see where bump stops would have been on your beam .
    Am unfamiliar with 68 beam so don't know re bump stops.

    The shocks sound ok.
    Pump a few full length strokes to bleed the air from the oil.
    Smooth firm resistance says they are working.
    We can check that they are correct length for lowered.
    If stiff enough they will slow rate of compression and therefore prevent some slow impacts but do not affect ride height.

    ET should be stamped on wheels ?

    Worth renewing rubber boots.
    Available as a separate item. Easy enough on tie rods but not as easy on ball joints.
     
  8. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,190
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    The ET (offset) will be stamped on the wheel.

    It is how far in or out the rim sits from the centre of the wheel.

    https://www.1010tires.com/Tools/Wheel-Offset-Calculator

    If you have the inside clearance the a larger ET will move the rim away from the lip.

    You need a cross relationship of the following
    ET
    Diameter
    Profile
    Rim width
    Load rating

    Is your beam adjustable?

    To me the issue is the load you are carrying.
    7 beefy people is a fair bit in a lowered van.
    By T3 scrapes with that load.

    Remember a stock split ran cross ply and was higher
     
  9. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    The “ET” is how far the inner part of the wheel sits on the rim part of the wheel, so if the inner part is removed and the rim is pushed in further and welded back in place again this puts the tyre further in, hope that makes sense.

    Tie rods, one should be a fixed tie rod, meaning the tie rods and tube come as one, the other side they are seperate, but if you measure the width of the old one and make the new the same measurement nothing should change as long as the fixed one is the same width as the old one, get a wheel alignment when you do ball joints

    you would have to put the bus up on a hoist to check if ball joints are ok or not

    Put the beam up on jack stands with tyres off the ground, undo the adjuster nuts and remove spline, wheels might drop but in my experience they won’t, you will have to jump up and down on the wheel

    Bump stops would have been where those holes are
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  10. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Thanks folks.
    Just checked the tyres and they are a 205/75R14.
    And when I replaced them they must have gone up a size because I pulled the spare out and it is an inch smaller. Glad I have been carrying that around for no reason. haha.

    Barry, the bus is not lowered. As far as I can gather it is stock height. Which is why it is annoying that it is scrubbing so much. For me to go up a spline or two I will be sitting fairly high, but if it fixes the issue that is fine. It might be that I should be running a slightly smaller tyre.
    Or at least a skinnier tyre.

    Could not find the ET stamp on the rim. Think I need to clean the rims a bit more.
     
  11. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Mike, when you say put the beam on jack stands. To adjust the beam would I not need the jack stand under the ladder frame which I have done now? Otherwise the weight of the bus will push down and the beam will go up resulting in me lowering the suspension more.
    I thought that if I am going to undo the adjuster splines I would need to have no weight on the beam so that I could then move the beam around.
     
  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,289
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Sorry Brad.
    Thought you were lowered.
    205/70 or 195/75 should fix the problem
    Prefer for 205/70 but choices may be very slim

    Don't forget load ratings.

    What tyre at Mo?
     
  13. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    UNDER BEAM, sorry to yell

    I ran 165’s but you have bay rims and they are wider, see if you can run 185’s with the right load rating
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
  14. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    11D428A8-CEE7-46CE-8FBE-BE02EE78938B.jpeg
     
    cbus likes this.
  15. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,289
    Location:
    sunshine coast
  16. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,190
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    Brad
    Are you running reductions boxes or have they been removed.
    If removed and running straight axles I thought that “lowered” a bus”

    Also what rim width are you running?
    I thought stock was 4 1/2” or 5”
    Why wouldn’t you run a 185/80?
     
  17. 68BUS

    68BUS Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,555
    Location:
    Brisbane
    No reduction boxes as it is IRS rear end from a bay.
    Not sure of rim width, I will have to measure.

    Cannot find the ET number stamped on the rims. I had them powdercoated and I can see where it should be but cannot make it out.

    And as far as why I am not running the 185's at the moment. I just went in and asked for tyres. I don't know what stock was and it was just supposed to replace what was on it already.
    Guess that didn't happen.

    So looks like I need to weld a bump stop spindle back on to make it work. Alternatively I might be able to find an aftermarket bracket and different bump stop. Next time I find a 68 I will have a look at their beam to know what I should be replicating.

    And Mike, I am still confused. I might have to find a video. For me the idea of jacking the bus up using the beam would mean I would only be able to move it closure to the floor of the bus which would mean it was lowering the whole set up. But I would need to be making the distance between the floor of the bus and the beam larger to create a larger space between top of the tyre and the wheel arch. And this would need no weight on the beam so I can make it drop down.
     
  18. splitbus

    splitbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,313
    Location:
    Brisbane
    Beam doesn’t move, trailing arms go down, making bus higher
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2019
    68BUS likes this.
  19. Barry

    Barry Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,190
    Location:
    Abbotsford NSW
    I’m far from knowledgeable on splits by my understanding is this set up is lower than stock
     
    Wayne murray likes this.
  20. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,289
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Are you running bay steelies Brad?
    5x112 stud pattern?
    If so then most likely 5.5" wide and 37 ET.

    The bump stop can be welded back most probably using a late bay donor.
     
    Pisces likes this.

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