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Trying not to start a fire...

Discussion in 'Fuel System & Electrics' started by TeeBee, Jun 7, 2020.

  1. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    My bus is leaking petrol and I have to get it towed to the mechanic next week. My problem at the moment is that the tow truck is going to have to try and get my kombi out of my carport, around a tricky, sharp, right angle turn into the driveway and then out into the street. Due to the fuel problem, I don't want to put the keys anywhere near the ignition, but how are we going to steer it? If I turn the keys around to the first 'click', is there going to be electricity which might start a fire? :confused: I don't want to burn out the coil either.
     
  2. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,562
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    Post a photo of your outlet from fuel tank.
    Clamp the outlet hose with a set of vice grips.
    Ensure clamp on tank end is secure and not split/ leaking.
    Undo next fitting which is likely a filter or pump and ensure that no fuel is coming out.
    Plug hose with a suitable size bolt or plug .
    Fold hose back on itself and zip tie.
    This will give multiple guarantees of blocked fuel hose.

    Allow all vapour and fuel to clear then disconnect battery terminals.
    Do negative first to prevent arcing positive on the body.

    Then safe to turn key as all fuel and electricity isolated.
     
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  3. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    I have to admit, I'm a bit of a 'dumb dumb' when it comes to the engine bay. I went and tried to find the fuel tank outlet hose, but it's so cold outside that my fingers started turning numb. I will try again tomorrow. Thanks @cbus.
     
  4. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,039
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi TeeBee, the fuel tank outlet is under the bus - even colder...easiest to go under from in front of the driver's side rear wheel. Patrick
     
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  5. rstucke

    rstucke Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,938
    Location:
    Wamberal NSW AUS
    On my bay window the steering lock is on with the key removed, but with the key in the ignition
    but in the OFF position the steering lock is deactivated. Mines 79 not sure what year yours is and not sure it's the same setup
     
    TeeBee likes this.
  6. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,686
    Location:
    newcastle
    I think TeeBee's is a 75 from memory & my 76 has steering lock engaged until key is turned @rstucke . I think @cbus has the most cautious approach re fire that may get it from where it is & onto the tilt tray without a burn.
    Approach like tintop suggests & look for a white canister (fuel filter) follow that uphill & you'll confirm where the tank is & thus how & what to clamp to keep safe. Negative on battery will be the black one that connects to the engine.
    My one concern is the steepness of @TeeBee drive & how the brake side of things will be managed given no power booster.
    I'd think a safety rope off the base of the carport (wrapped quite a few times around the base) to the roo bar be a good idea;). Slowly 'fed' out.
    Handbrake should cope but I'm sorta Irish 'to be sure':p.
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
    TeeBee likes this.
  7. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    My bus is a late '75 (76 model). Unfortunately the steering lock is still engaged with the key in the ignition. I just went out and looked underneath. I really don't know what I'm looking at, but this might be the fuel tank outlet?? (...she said hopefully...)
    20200608_134457-01.jpg

    It then connects to here:
    20200608_134512-01.jpg

    @David H, my carport slopes slightly uphill, so it will be towed out upwards. It should be ok, I'll chock the back wheels before I disconnect the battery.

    Gee, I smell of petrol now... :confused:
     
    David H likes this.
  8. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,562
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    You have found it.
    I know some Kombi experts like braided hose but I hate it.
    I advise the correct sized EFI hose graded for modern fuels . Class 9.
    (If mechanic can't find the right sizes check with Kai at just campers au.)
    More durable and you can visually see any deterioration ( cracks, splits, leaks.)

    The area by the pump looks moist
    A touch n sniff of hands should indicate if it's oil or fuel.
    The hose could be split, weeping, not clamped correctly.
    Appears to be correct size ?
    Maybe not fuel line ??

    Those clamps are useless.
    You need an EFI type that forms a good circle .
    Either the spring clamp as used on EFI or worm drive ones similar to what you have.

    https://www.justkampers.com.au/vw-t...vw-beetle-vw-t2-split-bay-vw-t25-1946-on.html

    Have full set of lines replaced and the breather lines checked.
    Also spiggots into carbs and carbs for weeping.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
    grumble likes this.
  9. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,562
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I assume fuel dripping on concrete is below the spot indicated in photo.

    No signs of leaks inside engine bay.
    Follow the fuel lines back from carbs.

    If the only source of fuel is the one indicated at fuel pump.( The round thing with two hoses going into it in second photo)
    Then you are safe to turn key on , but don't attempt to start car, as long as fuel isn't coming out which it shouldn't as the inlet hose looks ok and the wet one is the outlet.
    It won't flow fuel as long as engine not started.
    The pump should act as a stop.
     
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  10. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    It does seem to be wet around the fuel pump and it does smell like petrol. The hoses don't seem to be split or anything. I have a few layers of cardboard underneath, catching the drips and the dripping seems to have been where the fuel pump is located. I just went and had another look. I'm no expert (obviously), but take a look at this pic of the hose on the other side of the fuel pump. Should there be a clamp there?
    20200608_154846-01.jpg
     
  11. Buggergary

    Buggergary Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    90
    Location:
    Smithton Tasmania
    That bottom hose is just a drain for the fuel pump so if the diaphragm fails in the pump it will let fuel go to the ground instead of into the engine crankcase it's not under pressure so doesn't need a clamp.
    I would just disconnect the negative battery terminal then you would have no power to anything so would be safe to turn the key without any problems.
     
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  12. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,562
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    I have seen newish braided hoses weep considerable amounts of fuel but have no obvious cracks.
    No idea if wrong type or poor Chinese brand but won't touch any due to numerous issues observed with them.
    As stated above re the drain hose.
     
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  13. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    Ok. So I only have to disconnect the negative battery terminal, the brown braided one in the pic? And leave the black one connected?
    20200608_171935-01.jpg
     
    Grantus likes this.
  14. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,807
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    100 % correct TeeBee! :)

    5EAD4737-1AC7-4F55-8184-50B2E8F9704B.jpeg
     
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  15. TeeBee

    TeeBee Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    554
    Location:
    Outer East Melbourne
    Ha ha! I am a very long way off from being a mechanic, but I did learn some stuff today. :)
     
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  16. Grantus

    Grantus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,807
    Location:
    Southern ACT
    All in good time.... ;)
     
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  17. cbus

    cbus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,562
    Location:
    sunshine coast
    You can also replace offending hose to make it drive able if you want.
    Easy.
    But would still get all hoses replaced as well.
     
  18. tintop

    tintop Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,039
    Location:
    Canberra
    Hi TeeBee ... now that you've been under and found everything - if you want to save yourself a tow truck charge - go back under with a screw driver and check it out. there's a couple of possibilities as per previous posts...and it's just as easy to sort that out as disconnecting a battery

    that clamp on the wet hose might just be too loose or the hose not pushed on far enough - wiggle it

    if it's tight then - loosen the clamp on the wet hose - the only petrol that should come out is what's in the hose (take a small container with you if you want) ... check the end of the hose - might be cracked for last inch - if so cut off the bad bit (scissors or stanley knife) and put the hose back on.

    Less likely - if, when you pull the hose off, the pipe wiggles, then it might be spraying from there.

    Still a good idea to get new EFI hoses and clamps as per previous posts - and again, if you are keen that's diy - in any case you should be able to get it driveable rather than towing it to the mechanic (if you are keen)

    Patrick
     
  19. chris taylor

    chris taylor Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,067
    Location:
    adelaide sth aust
    Hi Col ,Wondering if you might explain to TeeBee the reason for using EFI hoses in place of the original ones. Future reference point i would suggest.
     
  20. David H

    David H Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,686
    Location:
    newcastle
    prob not :(
    Thought it was the diaphragm lee side looking for normal atmosphere. That's why the pipe doesn't care that it's been cut going thru the sharp edge;).
    Also a good way to fix but best ALL lines be replaced for their entirety. If they're poor at the ends the rest of the line is also.
    I've done what @tintop suggested many times. It gets you thru the immediate situation but leads you to . Must replace all lines realisation:).
    Cheers
     
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